question about model

(isbowhten) #1

do models always need less system performance than brushes?
e.g. could a map converted into a model (=> model of the map) be better than the brushes of the map?
and how can i create models if blender doesnt work on my pc? ^^

(carnage) #2

best advice i can give here is to not worry about the exact performance difference between models and brushes. You would would have to have quite an extreme map to probably notice a difference in performance and then it might still be very insignificant like a few fps

there is also a lot of work involved if you want to shift every visible tris in your map into a model format. particularly with re texturing. if you are planning to make your entire map in a model format then I would recommend making it almost entirely inside a modelling application, possibly use brushwork to create some kind of frame or scale

also consider that the quake 3 engine was designed to use brushwork so if you need to convert your map to a model you are probably trying to push the engine to do something it was not intended to do. And this can be pretty hard, so having a good knowledge of how the engine works is a big help (im assuming from the way you have presented your questions you are perhaps lacking in experience)

as far as why blender inst work on your computer you really havent given enough information and this probably inst the best forum to ask that sort of questions anyway. as an alternative there are multiple other modelling programs you could try googleing for. Also if you havent previously used blender then don’t assume your going to jump right into it and start chucking out models, it has a pretty unconventional interface and can take quite some time to get the hang of.

(isbowhten) #3

thanks :slight_smile:
so i could use prefabs (houses) for building a big city instead of models?

(pazur) #4

You should definitively learn how to use detail and structure for the best performance in your map. Read my tutorial here: http://www.geocities.com/pazurmapping/str_det/tut_str_det.htm Also make use of caulk and hint brushes. Caulk tutorial: http://www.wolfensteinx.com/surface/tutorials/caulking.html and hint brush tutorial: http://www.wolfensteinx.com/surface/tutorials/hint_brushes.html. Check your performance with the r_speeds console command. R_speeds tutorial: http://www.wolfensteinx.com/surface/tutorials/r_speeds.html

Models are good. They are working a little bit better than usual brushes when using hint brushes (but this is my personal perception). With q3map you can use auto-clip as well so you don’t need to clip them manually.

In my opinion a big city needs proper vis blocking (structure blocks rendering) to run well on a Q3A engine (W:ET is using an improved Q3A engine).

If Blender doesn’t work on your PC you can try Milkshape 3D: http://chumbalum.swissquake.ch/ms3d/index.html It supports MD3… the model format of W:ET.

(Detoeni) #5

[QUOTE=pazur;177164]With q3map you can use auto-clip as well so you don’t need to clip them manually.
[/QUOTE]

This is not a good idea, auto-clip is intended for terrain models where the player needs collisions for the object, for small detaill, models should just be incased in simple clip brushwork, if you use a clip shader with a “surfaceparm #steps” the impact mark get projected onto the models mesh.
If you take a tank for example and clip it in three brushies, thats 18 surfaces used for collisions, if you auto clip thats 1800+ surfaces…

(Ragnar_40k) #6

You should also take into account that models (i.e. md3 files) have limitations:[ul]
[li]32 surfaces (triangle meshes) with maximum 8192 triangles resp. 4096 vertices each[/li][li]256 shaders[/ul][/li]
Afaik .map-files have a limit of 16*1024 brushes.

Other (not so important for this case) md3 limitations:[ul]
[li]1024 frames per model[/li][*]16 tags per model[/ul]

(pazur) #7

Correct Detoeni… I wouldn’t use auto-clip on small models either.

Wow… Ragnar_40k. These are really precise numbers! I remember reading about a 1000 polygon limit for md3 (for misc_gamemodel), but you provide much more detailed numbers.

(aaa3) #8

autoclip destroys the purpose of using models instad of brushes. (it is a little bit better to use models instead of brushes, but it is worser to use autoclipped models instead of brushes!). and in general, autoclip is to be avoided imo :S

about modeling stuff, yea blender is very hard but very advanced too(just check youtube for liquid simulation videos), try to get it running. it is free and among the best. u wont find any better even close to it. why doesnt it works?

@pazur i think dt said to use a single one clip brush on small models, not to autoclip it
@carnage hm… about q3e likes brushes … idk im really not pro to say it but i think that very detailed brushwork which means lots of little brushes in a small place somehow doesnt sounds good to me, and would be better to replaced by models. again, i dont really know it, just thinking…

@isbow, to make a whole map of model is so much harder than using radiant, and is not too much better. there are several stuff in a map which is the same good from brushes, but brushes are much easier to make. for example terrain, houses, walls, and any big, simple stuff is really good from brush. using radiant is easy, using a modelling program is damn hard ^^ i think the best is to use brushes for these, and use models only for the complex items. if there are no complex items, then make everything of brush :slight_smile:
for example, at the pictures at that pazurmapping link there is nothing in that room which is too complicated to make from brush. maybe only the lamp at the ceiling.

(isbowhten) #9

thank you all.
i decided to create prefabs of different houses…(per haps 5 or 6) it wouldnt matter if there are many houses which look like the same i think… because it should be a very big map…
however, i’m sure that i will give up doing this ^^
but i want try it.

blender closes itself after double-click on the .exe (perhaps because of win 98? Oo)

(isbowhten) #10

would it matter (i hate houses you cant walk into) if the tons of houses in a map are all empty rooms?
e.g. no coaches chairs tables etc.?

(Nail) #11

won’t matter, most rooms are empty in most maps

(DerSaidin) #12

I’ve noticed players tend to cry a bit when rooms are on the empty side. And on the full side.

As brushwork is what the visportals are based on, I cant see performance of models being better.

As I understand it, if the origin (or bounds?) of a models is inside a vis portal which is being rendered, then the model will be rendered.

(isbowhten) #13

next question^^
Are in a house´wothout large corrodors but small rooms hint brushes needed???
i dont think they would help alot in the smnall rooms do they?

(DerSaidin) #14

So long as the brushes are structural, they will create seperate vis portals.
If you get the detail/structural/chalkhulling right, then theres only a few cases where you’ll actually need to optimize the vis portals with a hint brush.

(isbowhten) #15

thanks.
here is my first house.
is there everything ok?
http://rapidshare.com/files/114430892/haus1.map.html ( edit: this is a new link )