Pushback sucks...


(Runeforce) #1

…especially playing as a medic. I try to dive for a revive, but get shot from the front and can’t move to the target.

Also, it makes my chances for escaping an unexpected firefight smaller.

I know that it was lessened from previous iterations (now it’s just the pushback and no slowdowns based on damage taken) but it feels frustrating. Not a fan of it!

It feels too much like Battlefield and too less like previous SD titles.


(tokamak) #2

Make medics immune to pushback as long as they’ve got their paddles equipped. Solved.


(stealth6) #3

Honestly I like it.


(Runeforce) #4

Why? (plus chars)


(stealth6) #5

Tells me where I’m getting hit from and can be used to escape with.


(tokamak) #6

It gives you an edge on getting the first hit on someone.


(Runeforce) #7

I disagree as it dictates your escape options. The visual damage indicators already indicate the direction from which you are getting attacked. Leave the damage indicators out, and I doubt the pushback would be of much help before you are dead.

You already get an edge by getting the first hit. I see no reason to further handicap the person being at a disadvantage.


(tokamak) #8

With the push-backs hitting the other becomes more than just draining his health. You’re upsetting his aim for a short while which protects you or it protects team-mates. Not getting hit also makes more even more sense, it makes it just a tiny bit harder to get out of nasty situations and suppressive fire becomes a valid tactic.

I frequently find myself just firing at the opponent’s general direction, even if it’s in the distance or I’m preoccupied with something else, simply because getting hits off is important regardless of how much damage you do.


(Mustang) #9

I’d rather not have it at all, but I can understand that some like it.

But at least it should be a little bit weaker, so as not to interfere where it shouldn’t.

Not a fan of special cases, by the same token why I’d like to see all grenades be cook-able.


(INF3RN0) #10

It’s some what obnoxious. I don’t see much from it other than preventing a feeling of fluid smoothness while moving and being shot.


(Valdez) #11

Not really a big fan of it myself.


(Humate) #12

^ I concur


(warbie) #13

Agreed. I’m not a fan of any kind of hindrance on hit.


(Dthy) #14

Agree with everyone. To me it’s like you’re getting punished for attacking the enemy.


(tokamak) #15

I am a fan of special cases. I can see the medic with pads ignoring hits in grim determinacy to get his team-mate up.

The push-back should also vary per gun. Pistols and light rifles don’t need it. Those kind of weapons shoot FMJ most of the time anyway and that’s much lower stopping power. This means that even in real life people tend to keep fighting while being hit with those bullets, frequently not even noticing them until the shock recedes.

Bigger weapons should have more stopping power, the machine gun, the M16 and maaaybe the MP5.

I like what TF2 did with the Heavy. The Natasha minigun does 25% less damage but slows your targets. This means that Heavy players are constantly torn over using the vanilla weapon or Natasha (back when those were the only two options). It makes profound differences in the role you’re taking.

And now I’m rambling on but push-backs also tend to favour defenders over attackers. I’m not saying that’s a good or a bad thing, but once the weapons start varying in their push-back hit or have other effects attributed to it, then players will need to think more about the way their weapon functions in the current context, which is a great thing.

The offender’s goal is to kill any defence ASAP, any delay is a nuisance. That’s why they would gladly pick more damage over no stopping power.

Defenders however, are, next to killing attackers, also served with delaying and hindering attackers. Debuff effects on weapons are often preferred over damage because it allows them to have more control over bottlenecks and objective areas. It stops players from lemming in and messing up their defence structure.

You’re mistaking being shot with shooting heroine.


(zenstar) #16

I love the way you try to mix in some realism while trying to justify pushback on a gun.

First: as a Merc you’d be putting hollowpoints into your pistol for pure stopping power in your backup weapon. You’re not fighting a war… your aim is to kill and complete the mission, not to maim and tie up the supply lines like in war. You’ll be using the most lethal ammo in each weapon and that generally means not using FMJ in anything, prefering soft noses on all your rifle ammo too.

Second: bullets do not push people at all. Their mass is far too tiny and even if they come to a complete stop inside the target (imparting all their energy into the target) there is still way too much of a mass difference to even knock a person over.
Even a shotgun will drill a hole through a person at close range without knocking them down. The reason they fall down is because they now have a hole in them and that tends not to be conducive to standing.

Flying bodies are a movie myth. While I’m happy to have ragdolls go bouncing away from a shotgun blast please don’t try to use realism to explain mechanics that don’t happen in real life.


(stealth6) #17

If it wasn’t there it would be even easier to just run through fire as a medic reviving everybody…

Also it adds a nice element to Objectives like getting the power cores on LB. If you shoot the objective carrier in the back you’re pushing him forward, faster to the EV. Shooting him in the side might knock him off course and give you a few milliseconds extra to stop him and return the objective.

Reminds me of the risks of trickjumping in W:ET, do it at the wrong moment and they’ll shoot you knocking you back and making you fail the jump, or sometimes shooting you in the back causing you to fly over whatever you were doing :slight_smile:


(.Chris.) #18

Even easier? You can barely do that as it is.


(zenstar) #19

Do you get pushback from your own teammates? If so then you can get the soldier to launch medics across the map :wink:


(Reacto) #20

I’m kind of split on this issue. In one way it can be good that you move slower when you get shot at as it can make fights less random as people can’t move as fast as they’d want to and it will be easier to track them. However, on the other side this obviously takes down the skill ceiling making it easier to kill people if you see them first, reducing your enemy’s chance of being able to keep up his movement well enough so that he can kill you even though you waited for him.

There is on the other side one thing I’m sure of, if you want to keep this feature you really need to fine tune it more. At the moment it feels completely annoying and some fire fights feel so bugged in therms of movement that it completely kills the smoothness of the game. Additionally it feels like there’s some kind of bug with accuracy when you get shot at, especially with turrets. I don’t know if this is done on purpose so it’ll be harder to kill people who’s waiting for you, or if it’s just a bug/doesn’t exist at all, but allow me to explain. Get someone to put a turret right around a corner (a few metres from), then run around the corner to face it. Wait for it to start shooting (can happen if you were reloading while going around the corner), and try to destroy it after it has started shooting at you. A lot of times this has happened to me I haven’t gotten any hits whatsoever, ending with the turret killing me with max HP left. Even if I had the worst aim in the world (though at a range of a few metres it’s hardly possible to miss if you shoot more than five shots), there would at least be some damage to the turret.