Proxy's mines need fixing

(bubblesKeyboard) #1

So I made another thread about this but because everyone’s on General Chat and no where else I figured here was the best place for exposure.

Right now this is the situation:

  1. You shoot a mine where she is standing and she dies: Registers as her suicide

  2. You use an explosive to destroy her mine and she dies with her mine: Registers as your kill

  3. You shoot a mine where enemy teammates are: Nothing happens

  4. You use an explosive to destroy a mine where enemies are: You kill them

5)You shoot a mine where your teammates are: Teammates die and is registered as Proxy’s kills
6) You use an explosive to destroy a mine where teammates are: Nothing happens

I think it’s absurd that you can run into a group of people and place mines down and get multi-kills. If a Proxy runs through your team from a corner, by the time you finish killing her and realize she placed mines at your feet there’s not enough time to get away before they blow up. Not to mention if you see a mine and you blow it up, chances are there’s a teammate next to it who you will kill as well. My initial reaction when I see a mine is to blow it up because it’s the only way I can protect my teammates (experience from other games) however this isn’t the case in this game. So we’re pretty much doomed.

Many games treat mines as such: If you blow a mine while shooting, the mine’s explosion becomes your damage. So you can save teammates by blowing mines before they run into them by shooting them because when the server registers mines as your damage they wont be hurt because friendly fire is off. Likewise if you see an enemy standing under a mine you can blow it up and take them out. I am in favor of this treatment because it makes the most sense to me.

@Nail said somewhere on one of my threads that mines are area-denial weapons, which is true. But furthermore they are defensive area-denial weapons. They’re placed to protect things like objectives and areas. An airstrike is an example of another area-denial weapon, however this is an offensive one - it forces people out of an area rather than prevents them from entering. You mentioned games where mines were treated differently (if a teammate blows a mine up it can kill other teammates) but in those games friendly fire was on, so it makes sense.

(Sorry for calling you out)

Mines are defensive gadgets IMO… they aren’t meant for tossing in people’s faces. The fact that I can run into yellow room on Terminal while the other team is protecting the C4 on the first objective and place mines down before I die and get quads is ridiculous (and hilarious) IMO. Fragger’s nades can do the same thing however his nades are offensive so they’re meant for attacking enemies. Not to mention mines do more damage than nades and we all know how awesome cooked nades are.

(srswizard) #2

I agree on some of the points, but I don’t know if it’s a good idea to have mines do damage to the proxy’s team, when shot by the opponents.

I’d personally like to see the mines tweaked, so that when shot before armed, they’d do less explosive damage, or none at all.

Another issue that I have with explosives in DB is that they one-hit healing stations from way beyond their damaging radius, and their damaging radius feels inconsistent too.
(Probably because of stupid ass augments)

(bubblesKeyboard) #3

Yeah it’s always been like that with healing stations idk why.

I like the idea of doing no damage when shot before armed

(Zenity) #4

Ultimately this is only a question of how to handle friendly fire with mines. If friendly fire is enabled, there will be no difference other than point scoring, which is irrelevant for gameplay.

I do agree that it would probably be a good choice to change the source of the damage to the person who shot the mine rather than the one who planted it.

(itssmacks) #5

I agree with nail on that mines are area denial weapons and I don’t think that they should be purely defensive. The mines are not that broken, I agree with the fact you should get the kill if you blow a proxy up with her own mine but I disagree with everything else. I don’t think that if you shoot a mine with teammates near that it should not kill those teammate. If that is going to be changed, it should be changed to you killing those teammates. Shooting a mine with teammates nearby is stupidity. Mines are easy to avoid.

A potential change to balance the fact that she can go in and throw one down and cause all enemies to have to leave the area is that if you (proxy’s enemy) shoot the mine before it arms it does not blow up dealing damage, it is simply destroyed. I think the mechanic of proxy shooting her own mines to blow them up is should be kept.

Also “enemy teammates” is poor grammar, but I get what you are trying to say.

(bubblesKeyboard) #6

I cant think of a situation in which mines being used offensively is ok. In BLR there was something called frisbee throwing where people would throw mines in peoples faces and get kills. It was stupid to say the least. Mines are there to stop the enemy or slow them down. You do not run into an enemy area and plant them in front of people to make them go away. That’s ridiculous.

The server can do one of two things: it can deal with you blowing a mine up as your attack or an enemy’s attack.

If you shoot a mine and it kills the eneky Proxy, that means that it deals with it as your attack. That means if you shoot a mine near a teammate it will not kill them. Likewise it will kill the enemy team should one of them run near their teams mine.

If you shoot a mine and the kill counts as her suicide, that means the server deals with it as enemy damage. That means if you shoot a mine near teammates it will kill them.

Unarmed mines should not do damage when shot.

(bubblesKeyboard) #7

The majority of times mines are used they are in tight spaces. For example if you put them on the beginning of the second flight of stairs leading to the turret on Bridge, theres no way to destroy it without getting harmed unless you wadte an explosive Q ability.

So if you and 2 others pushed those stairs and a Proxy placed a mine at your feet, after killing her you wont have anywhere to run because its so narrow and your team will be taken out by the mine.

(Amerika) #8

The only issue with mines is how you can stick them in places they should not go without being able to shoot them without severely hurting or killing yourself. That will actually become an issue in team play as people learn all the hidey holes for mines. They should have extended hit boxes so you can blow them up while going up the stairway on terminal and other areas like that. Or simply allow anybody to somewhat quickly disarm them.

The scoring issue I really don’t care much about. And the way proxies lay mines is perfectly fine. It’s a fast paced game and people need to be able to deal with noticing a Proxy throwing out a mine and not standing on it even in the middle of a fire fight. And if a proxy can get a bunch of people that way then they should be more aware.

(Zenity) #9

The “real” game will be played with friendly fire on though I bet, so you will still be able to use them offensively either way. I think that’s ok, considering that it’s essentially a suicide manoeuvre.

(itssmacks) #10

[quote=“bubblesKeyboard;10937”]I cant think of a situation in which mines being used offensively is ok. In BLR there was something called frisbee throwing where people would throw mines in peoples faces and get kills. It was stupid to say the least. Mines are there to stop the enemy or slow them down. You do not run into an enemy area and plant them in front of people to make them go away. That’s ridiculous.

The server can do one of two things: it can deal with you blowing a mine up as your attack or an enemy’s attack.

If you shoot a mine and it kills the eneky Proxy, that means that it deals with it as your attack. That means if you shoot a mine near a teammate it will not kill them. Likewise it will kill the enemy team should one of them run near their teams mine.

If you shoot a mine and the kill counts as her suicide, that means the server deals with it as enemy damage. That means if you shoot a mine near teammates it will kill them.

Unarmed mines should not do damage when shot.[/quote]

You don’t read well do you.

I said that unarmed mines should be able to be cleared without explosion to avoid use of mines as grenades. I also said that killing a proxy with her own mine should be counted as your kill.

[quote=“bubblesKeyboard;10938”]The majority of times mines are used they are in tight spaces. For example if you put them on the beginning of the second flight of stairs leading to the turret on Bridge, theres no way to destroy it without getting harmed unless you wadte an explosive Q ability.

So if you and 2 others pushed those stairs and a Proxy placed a mine at your feet, after killing her you wont have anywhere to run because its so narrow and your team will be taken out by the mine.[/quote]

Offensive use of mines is fine and very easy to counter. Running in and placing mines in front of enemies should not be a thing, hence unarmed mines should be able to be cleared. You and I have differing definitions of offensive mines, you are thinking of people running up to you and throwing them in your face (i’m fine with this if they shoot and blow them up, as I have said it is easy to counter. I don’t like when people throw them down and run.). I’m thinking of offensive use as denying enemies defensive positions, such as a corner where an aura could put down a med station and basically make it a small stronghold.

Putting mines in tight places is pretty much the point of the mine. It’s for zone denial, by doing this you are controlling the zone. using an explosive ability to clear this should be what you should have to do, it is not a waste… Alternatively you just run over it, you can get out of the explosion radius before it goes off.