Proxy: Lock-on should not be a thing

[DirtyDav]

Title says it all, really. Did we really need cards that made mines more annoying? You’re dead 90% of the time you trigger one with it, even if you’ve got good reflexes and crouch jump.

For those of you who say you should just be more alert: mines can be placed just about anywhere and tend to show up when you are least expecting it (e.g. in an intense gunfight or escaping one). Without lock-on, if you hear the sound without having seen the mine, there’s at least a chance that you can get away in time. But with lock-on, that’s just next to impossible; you’re dead as soon as you hear the sound.

…please tell me I’m not the only one who has had a serious problem with this since the day they released Edition II?

[Szakalot]

while i completely disagree about mines being OP im fully behind removing lockon.
no other augment in the game forces you to act differently to enemy’s merc key ability.

imagine skyhammer’s airstrike coming in faster, or reducing fragger nade fuse time by 1sec. it would be super annoying

the only reason proxy lockon is not as annoying is cause mines are quite weak.

still makes for an unfun mechanic

[DirtyDav]

while i completely disagree about mines being OP im fully behind removing lockon.

Rephrased my post to say “annoying”, because yeah, good players can generally avoid mines, while lock-on practically skyrockets their “op-ness”. I’d still say that even vanilla mines are at least one of the most annoying abilities though. Can’t wait for a proxy nerf

Also, minor point, but Fletcher and Bush also get lock-on, and while not nearly as drastic as the effects of mines, they do make stickies and turrets a bit more annoying. I don’t think that’s as big a deal though (although stickies in general do need a nerf…another topic tho lmao).

Btw I don’t really consider regular mines weak, either; the wiki says they do 150 dmg (I assume that’s within a very small radius and the falloff is extensive but still), which is enough to kill a full hp fragger. It’s particularly annoying when you’re down half-hp or so.

[GatoCommodore]

[quote=“Szakalot;213934”]while i completely disagree about mines being OP im fully behind removing lockon.

Rephrased my post to say “annoying”, because yeah, good players can generally avoid mines, while lock-on practically skyrockets their “op-ness”. I’d still say that even vanilla mines are at least one of the most annoying abilities though. Can’t wait for a proxy nerf

Also, minor point, but Fletcher and Bush also get lock-on, and while not nearly as drastic as the effects of mines, they do make stickies and turrets a bit more annoying. I don’t think that’s as big a deal though (although stickies in general do need a nerf…another topic tho lmao).

Btw I don’t really consider regular mines weak, either; the wiki says they do 150 dmg (I assume that’s within a very small radius and the falloff is extensive but still), which is enough to kill a full hp fragger. It’s particularly annoying when you’re down half-hp or so.[/quote]

waiting nerf for the most used engineer by newbies

maybe in the year 2020

but yeah, usually i defend the lock on on proxy but lately while i was playing against people with the same skill as myself in pubs, i get steamrolled and basically the lock on become useless if you arent playing defender and getting defending advantage.

i admit, its getting stale playing proxy against scrubs, its not even fun anymore since the scrubs probably quit dirty bomb if i keep making them roll in their graves and i will have nobody else to play with

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/berserk/images/3/3e/GutsCrying.png/revision/latest?cb=20150217202748

maybe when the Turtle show up to fix Proxy eye she will get rework.

[Dawnlazy]

If you stepped on the mine in the first place you already did a misplay.

[Eox]

I feel like you are concentrating your energy on the wrong subject : the issue isn’t lock on on Proxy, it’s Proxy herself. She just dominates pubs and is overplayed due to her low skill floor. In pubs, she’s highly rewarding, probably kind of too much. Yet in competition she’s the worst engineer pic so far. Why ? Three reasons :

• Fast character. Awesome in pubs where most of people do not have such a huge aim. Since communication is hardly a thing, a Proxy will be able to flank very easly. A decent Proxy will rack up a ludicrous amount of kills with the mine + shot combo. However, in competition where communication is key and people tend to have a top notch aim, Proxy’s low hp does not play in her favor at all.
• Shotguns. Those are the bane of the beginners, especially since in pubs fights tends to happen at a lower range than what you could see in competition. Shotguns can deal insane front loaded damage, making them extremely efficient in flanking and all situations involving close range. However, competition, DB’s metagame tends to be mid to long ranged. Shotguns tend to REALLY underperform here : the time you take to get up close is enough to get downed at least three times. Some people dared to play Shotgun in competitions recently and did fine, but I wouldn’t recommand to do the same.
• Mines. Those are countered by awareness. But guess what people are lacking in pubs ? Awareness, that’s right. Without communication, nobody can truly inform people about mines, and the constant chaos doesn’t help either. However, it won’t work as well in competition. Because communication, once again.

Proxy is basically the cheesiest character in DB so far : no wonder why she’s so appreciated by pubbers. She’s also extremely frustrating if played well (I experienced a couple of people able to pull out the mine + shot combo instantly, it’s extremely rage inducing). But we can’t really outright nerf her since she’s also the worst engineer pick in competition. I think the good solution would be skill indexing tweaks that would raise Proxy’s efficiency in competition while tuning down the frustrating mechanics.

…Anyway, to be honest, if you stepped on a mine at first place, you probably deserved your death. I can agree that Proxy is frustrating, but stepping on a mine should definitely not be kind.

[JJMAJR]

I think Proxy should have an anti-explosives deployable that can only block one explosive. This can’t be used effectively against new players but would be incredible in competitive.

Thus, Proxy wouldn’t really need her mines, but she would be a solid defender, even if she is using a shotgun.

Fletcher needs a rework too. He’s too meta and a must-pick in most offensive scenarios.

[GatoCommodore]

[quote=“JJMAJR;213989”]I think Proxy should have an anti-explosives deployable that can only block one explosive. This can’t be used effectively against new players but would be incredible in competitive.

Thus, Proxy wouldn’t really need her mines, but she would be a solid defender, even if she is using a shotgun.

Fletcher needs a rework too. He’s too meta and a must-pick in most offensive scenarios.[/quote]

well not too meta but hes outclassing all of the engineer and even theassault class because he can practically do all the jobs all by himself, talk about flexibility.

well of course you can do offense with proxy and bush too but fletcher is way too good with no real downside, even for his loadout.

prox can be killed while dropping her mine
bush turret cooldown is very long

[Icecoal]

While I hate her I think lock on is ok considering how ez veterans avoid mines. She’s just so annoying and way to prominent In pubs. Just yesterday I played against 3 proxies on a min 10 server.

[DirtyDav]

Yeah, my current opinion on Proxy: shit in comp, gets free kills in pubs.

If you stepped on the mine in the first place you already did a misplay.

Most of the time I agree, but there’s some places I always hit them; for instance, in Market’s Totally Awesome Chicken building, if there’s a mine on the stair railing, I tend to trigger it because you run up stairs pretty damn fast. Before the MOFO update, there would always be a mine near the stairs for first objective, which I tended to end up triggering a lot if I wasn’t paying enough attention. And there’s dozens more of these places.

And then there’s lockon, which makes a difficult situation impossible if you’ve triggered one.

Maybe I have more problem with them than others (part of it has to do with how I frequently play with low volume/without headphones), but I still think some mine placements are really, really hard to avoid. And let’s not forget what a pain in the ass they are when they’re at the top of the stairs. Shooting them without taking any damage really disrupts the game flow for me.

TL;DR: Proxy is annoying af in pubs, even more of a nuisance with lock-on. #proxynerf2020

[GatoCommodore]

[quote=“r2dav2;214193”]Yeah, my current opinion on Proxy: @$!# in comp, gets free kills in pubs.

If you stepped on the mine in the first place you already did a misplay.

Most of the time I agree, but there’s some places I always hit them; for instance, in Market’s Totally Awesome Chicken building, if there’s a mine on the stair railing, I tend to trigger it because you run up stairs pretty damn fast. Before the MOFO update, there would always be a mine near the stairs for first objective, which I tended to end up triggering a lot if I wasn’t paying enough attention. And there’s dozens more of these places.

And then there’s lockon, which makes a difficult situation impossible if you’ve triggered one.

Maybe I have more problem with them than others (part of it has to do with how I frequently play with low volume/without headphones), but I still think some mine placements are really, really hard to avoid. And let’s not forget what a pain in the ass they are when they’re at the top of the stairs. Shooting them without taking any damage really disrupts the game flow for me.

TL;DR: Proxy is annoying af in pubs, even more of a nuisance with lock-on. #proxynerf2020[/quote]

a mine successfully distrupt the game flow

Oh Gee Whiz, i wonder why
maybe it was intended to be that way.

Rhino+Aura can be used to stop an entire team on push
Proxy and Stoker molotov acts as area denial if the enemy decide not to go thru the molotov/mine.

[DirtyDav]

[quote=“sweetColumn;214215”][quote=“r2dav2;214193”]Yeah, my current opinion on Proxy: @$!# in comp, gets free kills in pubs.

If you stepped on the mine in the first place you already did a misplay.

Most of the time I agree, but there’s some places I always hit them; for instance, in Market’s Totally Awesome Chicken building, if there’s a mine on the stair railing, I tend to trigger it because you run up stairs pretty damn fast. Before the MOFO update, there would always be a mine near the stairs for first objective, which I tended to end up triggering a lot if I wasn’t paying enough attention. And there’s dozens more of these places.

And then there’s lockon, which makes a difficult situation impossible if you’ve triggered one.

Maybe I have more problem with them than others (part of it has to do with how I frequently play with low volume/without headphones), but I still think some mine placements are really, really hard to avoid. And let’s not forget what a pain in the ass they are when they’re at the top of the stairs. Shooting them without taking any damage really disrupts the game flow for me.

TL;DR: Proxy is annoying af in pubs, even more of a nuisance with lock-on. #proxynerf2020[/quote]

a mine successfully distrupt the game flow

Oh Gee Whiz, i wonder why
maybe it was intended to be that way.

Rhino+Aura can be used to stop an entire team on push
Proxy and Stoker molotov acts as area denial if the enemy decide not to go thru the molotov/mine.

[/quote]

…yeah, I guess fair point. But at the same time, you practically have to take damage if you want to eliminate it (that is, if you don’t have nades or something). It doesn’t disappear like stoker’s molly, either. Hence the reason I say it disrupts gameplay.

Let me put it this way: stoker’s molly is easy to see and go away soon. Mines, at least in my experience, appear at the most annoying times and can be troublesome to get rid of. I think they’re the only thing in the game that deny an area until you destroy them, which in the process can inevitably take out a chunk of your hp.

I know most of the time it’s not a big deal, but I have had many occasions where I would have had a successful escape had there not been a skill-lessly placed mine at the top of the stairs. They take little/no effort to place and generate free kills like fucking crazy.

So I still want #proxynerf2020…although I haven’t the fucking slightest how.

[GatoCommodore]

[quote=“r2dav2;214221”][quote=“sweetColumn;214215”][quote=“r2dav2;214193”]Yeah, my current opinion on Proxy: @$!# in comp, gets free kills in pubs.

If you stepped on the mine in the first place you already did a misplay.

Most of the time I agree, but there’s some places I always hit them; for instance, in Market’s Totally Awesome Chicken building, if there’s a mine on the stair railing, I tend to trigger it because you run up stairs pretty damn fast. Before the MOFO update, there would always be a mine near the stairs for first objective, which I tended to end up triggering a lot if I wasn’t paying enough attention. And there’s dozens more of these places.

And then there’s lockon, which makes a difficult situation impossible if you’ve triggered one.

Maybe I have more problem with them than others (part of it has to do with how I frequently play with low volume/without headphones), but I still think some mine placements are really, really hard to avoid. And let’s not forget what a pain in the ass they are when they’re at the top of the stairs. Shooting them without taking any damage really disrupts the game flow for me.

TL;DR: Proxy is annoying af in pubs, even more of a nuisance with lock-on. #proxynerf2020[/quote]

a mine successfully distrupt the game flow

Oh Gee Whiz, i wonder why
maybe it was intended to be that way.

Rhino+Aura can be used to stop an entire team on push
Proxy and Stoker molotov acts as area denial if the enemy decide not to go thru the molotov/mine.

[/quote]

…yeah, I guess fair point. But at the same time, you practically have to take damage if you want to eliminate it (that is, if you don’t have nades or something). It doesn’t disappear like stoker’s molly, either. Hence the reason I say it disrupts gameplay.

Let me put it this way: stoker’s molly is easy to see and go away soon. Mines, at least in my experience, appear at the most annoying times and can be troublesome to get rid of. I think they’re the only thing in the game that deny an area until you destroy them, which in the process can inevitably take out a chunk of your hp.

I know most of the time it’s not a big deal, but I have had many occasions where I would have had a successful escape had there not been a skill-lessly placed mine at the top of the stairs. They take little/no effort to place and generate free kills like @$!# crazy.

So I still want #proxynerf2020…although I haven’t the @$!# slightest how.[/quote]

lel you dont have to shoot the mine

you go around the mine

stoker is immidiate area denial that can cover a larger area

proxy is a preventive area denial that cant cover a large area but it delays people

its annoying, but thats what the mines are for.

if we gonna talk versatility and longer linger time Bush Turret is currently the best.
it covers lengthier area, can be used to suppress enemies, can be used like proxy mine.

but sadly the Sentry is kind of lame right now. Too weak and too quick to be destroyed and cant be repaired

[DirtyDav]

[quote=“sweetColumn;214236”][quote=“r2dav2;214221”][quote=“sweetColumn;214215”][quote=“r2dav2;214193”]Yeah, my current opinion on Proxy: @$!# in comp, gets free kills in pubs.

If you stepped on the mine in the first place you already did a misplay.

Most of the time I agree, but there’s some places I always hit them; for instance, in Market’s Totally Awesome Chicken building, if there’s a mine on the stair railing, I tend to trigger it because you run up stairs pretty damn fast. Before the MOFO update, there would always be a mine near the stairs for first objective, which I tended to end up triggering a lot if I wasn’t paying enough attention. And there’s dozens more of these places.

And then there’s lockon, which makes a difficult situation impossible if you’ve triggered one.

Maybe I have more problem with them than others (part of it has to do with how I frequently play with low volume/without headphones), but I still think some mine placements are really, really hard to avoid. And let’s not forget what a pain in the ass they are when they’re at the top of the stairs. Shooting them without taking any damage really disrupts the game flow for me.

TL;DR: Proxy is annoying af in pubs, even more of a nuisance with lock-on. #proxynerf2020[/quote]

a mine successfully distrupt the game flow

Oh Gee Whiz, i wonder why
maybe it was intended to be that way.

Rhino+Aura can be used to stop an entire team on push
Proxy and Stoker molotov acts as area denial if the enemy decide not to go thru the molotov/mine.

[/quote]

…yeah, I guess fair point. But at the same time, you practically have to take damage if you want to eliminate it (that is, if you don’t have nades or something). It doesn’t disappear like stoker’s molly, either. Hence the reason I say it disrupts gameplay.

Let me put it this way: stoker’s molly is easy to see and go away soon. Mines, at least in my experience, appear at the most annoying times and can be troublesome to get rid of. I think they’re the only thing in the game that deny an area until you destroy them, which in the process can inevitably take out a chunk of your hp.

I know most of the time it’s not a big deal, but I have had many occasions where I would have had a successful escape had there not been a skill-lessly placed mine at the top of the stairs. They take little/no effort to place and generate free kills like @$!# crazy.

So I still want #proxynerf2020…although I haven’t the @$!# slightest how.[/quote]

but sadly the Sentry is kind of lame right now. Too weak and too quick to be destroyed and cant be repaired[/quote]

^This deserves a thread of it’s own, tbh. #proxynerf2020 #buffbush2020

[BananaSlug]

me before update:" oh mine, lets jump above it"
me after lock on update:" oh mine, lets jump above it jumps WHY IS THIS RANDOM THING A THING!"

[frostyvampire]

Series 3 loadout cards confirmed?
New augments, less cancer, MK for Fragger and K-121 for Thunder, P90 Proxy?

[BananaSlug]

[quote=“FrostyVampire;215160”]Series 3 loadout cards confirmed?
New augments, less cancer, MK for Fragger and K-121 for Thunder, P90 Proxy?[/quote]

wat…

like they didnt say enough time that there wont be any weapon switching, and lock on would stay anyway on gen2

[Sorotia]

If you stepped on the mine in the first place you already did a misplay.

Except you don’t have to step on a mine for it to go off…could be half way across the room and it will go boom…can be killed by mines which the audio bugs out on enough and you can’t even hear them…can be killed by explosions which go through things and still kill you.

Trainyard is a good example of the last part I’m talking about…some people know how and where to place mines where it will kill you through walls.

[GatoCommodore]

[quote=“Dawnrazor;c-213979”]If you stepped on the mine in the first place you already did a misplay.

Except you don’t have to step on a mine for it to go off…could be half way across the room and it will go boom…can be killed by mines which the audio bugs out on enough and you can’t even hear them…can be killed by explosions which go through things and still kill you.

Trainyard is a good example of the last part I’m talking about…some people know how and where to place mines where it will kill you through walls.[/quote]

i didnt know there are place in trainyard to kill people thru walls…

[bgyoshi]

If you think fast proximity-triggered mines that explode because you didn’t see them and got too close are annoying, I heard they made a class with mines you can actually stick onto people and detonate at will.

Might just be a rumor though.