Problem is not the marketing

(alberto) #1

Badman

I think that bethesda is going on the wrong direction and you guys should speak them louder cause you are the modders/programmers/devs not them.

The problem of the game is not the marketing, actually the problem of the game is the game itself. They should face the fact that the game is broken and instead spend money to advertise the product, they should invest bucks to find new people and fix it. Advertise a broken product results in a bigger fail.

I sell fornitures and i think the bases of the marketing can be applied on every product. If i sell a ugly table that doesn’t please someone, i can lower the price however i want but the table will still be there, in my store.
(Honestly and modestly, in 1 year and half, I invoiced 533.475,00 euros for the place where i work. Probably i know something about people, marketing and selling.)

Vice versa, in my country there is a brandy distilled from wine very famous. It’s Grappa Nardini.

Since 1779 the brand is known in every part of italy and more countries and you wanna know HOW? Quality. They didn’t even spend a single cent for advertising. With quality the product advertises itself. It’s good and people talk good with other people about it. Like i am doing right now. It’s the tam tam effect…

This should make bethesda think about it. Now, if u don’t fix it before you start massively to advertise it, you will only put people in the position to say “hey! this **** sake! they were right! this game is broken”

You have 1 bullet now. Try to kill the lion instead kill yourself to not be eaten by the lion.

my 2 cent

(Zarel) #2

Second to the last line is a bit strong. But good read. I think this should be posted to every game publisher and/or development team. A very good reminder.

(alberto) #3

especially when devs aim only to sell games instead bring people to play and please their games.
When you have second option, you automatically sell it.

(ScumBag) #4

I like your grappa analogy. There’s a problem though - as much as SD would like to make a quality product, they’re working in a business environment which demands they make something palatable to a large audience.

I’ll rework the grappa idea into something I’m more familiar with - beer. Bethesda is a very large distributor, and 90% of their sales come from the gaming equivalent of Budweiser/Stella/Fizzyyellowwater. Stuff that’s not too different, enjoyable, a nice break from the day-to-day ect. No different than the sea of Macro-Lager that crowds out the shelving on the beer isle. Fine if you are into that sort of thing, good even, on a hot day after mowing the lawn.

Here’s the thing though. SD isn’t making Swiller. They are trying to make Samuel Smiths Old Tadcaster Porter. Bethesda is going to look at that and their heads are going to assplode. SD will deny it until the day they dissolve, but there has to be downward pressure from Beth (or just from the market) to rush a product out the door. Brink is an excellent real ale which has been watered down, dyed yellow and put into a cold-activated can in an effort to attract the 90% market share. These people are not SD customers.

But try telling Beth this. Bud doesn’t sell itself, it can’t because it tastes horrible and similar to a lot of other macro lagers out there. What sells watered down mass market crap is the advertising. I’d hazard a guess that most people who bought Brink did so because of the advertising. “Oh look - a GAME. I could use another GAME. I’ll play this GAME for a couple of weeks. It was ok. What was the name of that GAME again? I forgot, but I could sure use another GAME.” and so on. SD is caught in this trap trying to sell something interesting in a market that rewards less interesting things.

The only way I see them winning here is if SD makes the decision to leave the 90% of the mass market and make an effort to dominate the 10% of consumers who demand something different. By focusing on quality and taking the time to get things right, they can build up a loyal following who will stick with them through thick and thin.

I’d be surprised if Beth will see this though. Looking at their track record, what keeps that company growing is big blockbusters. Spending less and staying small isn’t part of that world-view, but it is the only way to maintain quality. This is why I’m guessing Rage is also going to blow.

p.s. Before you jump all over me and point out my analogy is crap because X beer is huge and also good - Valve = Guinness. The exception which proves the rule. Good day sirs.

(alberto) #5

[QUOTE=ScumBag;354596]I like your grappa analogy. There’s a problem though - as much as SD would like to make a quality product, they’re working in a business environment which demands they make something palatable to a large audience.

I’ll rework the grappa idea into something I’m more familiar with - beer. Bethesda is a very large distributor, and 90% of their sales come from the gaming equivalent of Budweiser/Stella/Fizzyyellowwater. Stuff that’s not too different, enjoyable, a nice break from the day-to-day ect. No different than the sea of Macro-Lager that crowds out the shelving on the beer isle. Fine if you are into that sort of thing, good even, on a hot day after mowing the lawn.

Here’s the thing though. SD isn’t making Swiller. They are trying to make Samuel Smiths Old Tadcaster Porter. Bethesda is going to look at that and their heads are going to assplode. SD will deny it until the day they dissolve, but there has to be downward pressure from Beth (or just from the market) to rush a product out the door. Brink is an excellent real ale which has been watered down, dyed yellow and put into a cold-activated can in an effort to attract the 90% market share. These people are not SD customers.

But try telling Beth this. Bud doesn’t sell itself, it can’t because it tastes horrible and similar to a lot of other macro lagers out there. What sells watered down mass market crap is the advertising. I’d hazard a guess that most people who bought Brink did so because of the advertising. “Oh look - a GAME. I could use another GAME. I’ll play this GAME for a couple of weeks. It was ok. What was the name of that GAME again? I forgot, but I could sure use another GAME.” and so on. SD is caught in this trap trying to sell something interesting in a market that rewards less interesting things.

The only way I see them winning here is if SD makes the decision to leave the 90% of the mass market and make an effort to dominate the 10% of consumers who demand something different. By focusing on quality and taking the time to get things right, they can build up a loyal following who will stick with them through thick and thin.

I’d be surprised if Beth will see this though. Looking at their track record, what keeps that company growing is big blockbusters. Spending less and staying small isn’t part of that world-view, but it is the only way to maintain quality. This is why I’m guessing Rage is also going to blow.

p.s. Before you jump all over me and point out my analogy is crap because X beer is huge and also good - Valve = Guinness. The exception which proves the rule. Good day sirs.[/QUOTE]

yours is also a good point and i wont jump over you
Just lemme say that brink doesnt need to be radically changed to be good, it only needs some things.
Like saying : this beer isnt good enough but with a lemon slice it rocks…
So why dont you sell it with lemon if effectively it rocks that way?

Everyone is telling beth/sd to put that lemon slice in it… but they dont listen and are very quiet and this last thing is the most sad thing

(xTriXxy) #6

[QUOTE=alberto;354355]Badman

I think that bethesda is going on the wrong direction and you guys should speak them louder cause you are the modders/programmers/devs not them.

The problem of the game is not the marketing, actually the problem of the game is the game itself. They should face the fact that the game is broken and instead spend money to advertise the product, they should invest bucks to find new people and fix it. Advertise a broken product results in a bigger fail.

I sell fornitures and i think the bases of the marketing can be applied on every product. If i sell a ugly table that doesn’t please someone, i can lower the price however i want but the table will still be there, in my store.
(Honestly and modestly, in 1 year and half, I invoiced 533.475,00 euros for the place where i work. Probably i know something about people, marketing and selling.)

Vice versa, in my country there is a brandy distilled from wine very famous. It’s Grappa Nardini.

Since 1779 the brand is known in every part of italy and more countries and you wanna know HOW? Quality. They didn’t even spend a single cent for advertising. With quality the product advertises itself. It’s good and people talk good with other people about it. Like i am doing right now. It’s the tam tam effect…

This should make bethesda think about it. Now, if u don’t fix it before you start massively to advertise it, you will only put people in the position to say “hey! this **** sake! they were right! this game is broken”

You have 1 bullet now. Try to kill the lion instead kill yourself to not be eaten by the lion.

my 2 cent[/QUOTE]

Point of bethesda is to earn as much as possible. Their marketing was one of the best. They sold hundreds of thousands copies of brink the game.

who cares if game is not finished? this is business. like any other. No one cares about customer anymore.

and what about other bethesda games? hunted?

(Azev2000) #7

[QUOTE=xTriXxy;354666]Point of bethesda is to earn as much as possible. Their marketing was one of the best. They sold hundreds of thousands copies of brink the game.

who cares if game is not finished? this is business. like any other. No one cares about customer anymore.

and what about other bethesda games? hunted?[/QUOTE]

The Hunted. Wow was that a complete failed attempt.

RAGE will be great but that is because they have some of the best guys in the entire industry and it needs to represent IDtech5 well. Skyrim we all know will be amazing. Beth would not dare mess with that cash cow.

I feel bad for SD though. The originals were a great bunch of talented and eager devs. Now they are being told when they are allowed to speak, who to hire, and what to charge for.

(Jimmy James) #8

Worse than Daggerfall?

I hope you are right about this but this quote from Wikipedia makes me think DOOM 4 will be the one to showcase id Tech 5:

On August 1, 2008, John Carmack, the co-founder and technical director of id Software said that Doom 4 will look three times better than Rage does, as it runs at 30 frames per second, on Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, rather than 60 that Rage targets. In Windows, Doom 4 will run at 60 frames per second with state of the art hardware.

-JJ

(Azev2000) #9

[QUOTE=Jimmy James;354694]Worse than Daggerfall?

I hope you are right about this but this quote from Wikipedia makes me think DOOM 4 will be the one to showcase id Tech 5:

-JJ[/QUOTE]

That was quite some time ago. Plus by the time DOOM 4 releases there will be an entire new generation of consoles.

(Jimmy James) #10

For you maybe, I still have nightmares about it.

What makes you think this?

-JJ

(Thundermuffin) #11

He’s talking about the consoles looking that much better for Doom 4; consoles have a hard time pushing 60FPS with the level of quality they are going for in RAGE (heck they have a hard time with 60FPS anyways lol). That’s why when RAGE actually releases you’ll probably see a major difference in the quality unless they pulled a Crysis 2 and made both versions look bad (which from the videos they haven’t done, thankfully).

(xTriXxy) #12

doom 4 will be real game? isnt rage new doom 4?

(gooey79) #13

Nope. Rage is a new IP but Doom 4 is also in the works.

(Jimmy James) #14

No, RAGE is DOOM with vehicles (like ET:QW and W:ET) DOOM 4 is going to, theoretically, go back to a more traditional DOOM style game and away from the horror-style setting of DOOM 3.

Thinks fondly of what Brink would be like with vehicles.

-JJ

(alberto) #15

[QUOTE=Jimmy James;354716]No, RAGE is DOOM with vehicles (like ET:QW and W:ET) DOOM 4 is going to, theoretically, go back to a more traditional DOOM style game and away from the horror-style setting of DOOM 3.

Thinks fondly of what Brink would be like with vehicles.

-JJ[/QUOTE]

rage is doom 4 with vehicles?

It’s like saying that soccer is like american football but it has a round ball and players wear lighter clothes

(Kl3ppy) #16

[QUOTE=alberto;355068]rage is doom 4 with vehicles?

It’s like saying that soccer is like american football but it has a round ball and players wear lighter clothes[/QUOTE]

hahhaa love this comparision :smiley:

oh, and just in case u dont know looking@SD and Bethesda, the customer is ur most important factor. They buy ur products and they are happy when they got what the company said they will get. If the company lied and just delivered a crappy copy of games with some new features, customers will remember when the next game will be released and they wont buy it because they got fooled once and if they are smart, they wont get fooled twice otherwise they are stupid. And SD is not doing anything to make the customer happy, no real statement on some big issues (SDK, Linux Server), and no statement overall. So SD, u better change something or u have to close ur shop.

(Apples) #17

[QUOTE=Chance.;355072]hahhaa love this comparision :smiley:

oh, and just in case u dont know looking@SD and Bethesda, the customer is ur most important factor. They buy ur products and they are happy when they got what the company said they will get. If the company lied and just delivered a crappy copy of games with some new features, customers will remember when the next game will be released and they wont buy it because they got fooled once and if they are smart, they wont get fooled twice otherwise they are stupid. And SD is not doing anything to make the customer happy, no real statement on some big issues (SDK, Linux Server), and no statement overall. So SD, u better change something or u have to close ur shop.[/QUOTE]

You forgot in your analysis that 90% of customers are useless cows…

Peace

(xTriXxy) #18

[QUOTE=Apples;355092]You forgot in your analysis that 90% of customers are useless cows…

Peace[/QUOTE]

have you purchased brink or not?

(Apples) #19

I’ll let you guess :wink: