preset classes versus customized loadouts

(Protekt1) #1

Should note that I don’t know how microtransactions or customized loadouts are going to work in this game or even if they are definitely doing customized loadouts or not. This is just to put my opinion down of how they should handle microtransaction and loadouts

Personally I think there is a major flaw in customized loadouts in fps and even in RPGs. There will always be a top loadout or configuration. Its almost impossible to balance out completely. I also think its a passing fad in the fps genre that may die out (or at least fall from popularity) in the coming years. I think SD should be a leader in moving on from customized loadouts in fps. They should do this by adding specialized versions of existing classes that are balanced, unique, and fair.

Expanding upon the idea, specialized classes will be like a side-grade tier of new combinations of weapons and abilities. Each class will be unlockable in game without paying a dime. But early unlocks can be purchased by the lazy/willing and there will be unique skins and camos for each class/specialization for those who like that (count me a fan).

This works for microtransactions. The way I see it, generally most people don’t like pay 2 win. In fact that probably scares away way more people than it would bring in so its best to avoid p2w. Then we have two distinct groups to target. First we have the group of people who are willing to pay for early unlocks or cosmetics and then we have the group who are only willing to pay for cosmetics. Preset classes can satisfy the first group by allowing for purchase of early unlocks and the second group by allowing purchase of skins/weapon camos.

And again, I think this is better for everyone than having customized loadouts. Preset classes can be finely tuned to be balanced. If you have concerns about competitive play, chances are competitive play will play by its own rules anyway. In that respect, I think balanced pub/casual play is 10x more important. If the game gains a huge audience, most players will be casual/pub play so its vital to have a strong pub experience. A strong pub experience will promote more people getting interested in competitive play. Sure you’ll draw in competitive players with a strong competitive side but I think its safe to say that will happen regardless of whether the pub play is there or not. But you’ll actually breed new competitive players with an incredibly balanced pub game. And looking at a game like LoL and its huge numbers… I think the competitive side promoted pub play and pub play promotes competitive play because of its balance. Would that have happened if LoL wasn’t balanced in pub play (half rhetorical but I actually never played LoL so if you know the answer feel free)?

And to tie things up, I think preset classes is best for a balanced environment as opposed to customized loadouts. I am basing my conclusion on experience with other competitive shooters with customization. All customized loadouts really does is permit you to gather the strongest weapons and tools. It allows you to min/max to get the best possible combination of stats. I think too much customization actually reduces choice because you’re forced to either use the best loadout or play at a disadvantage.

(tokamak) #2

Preset classes do miss the personal connection to your avatar though. That’s major in F2P.

(Protekt1) #3

I don’t understand exactly what you mean but there will be skins and weapon camos to make yourself unique. And I think there is much room for personal connection, perhaps even more than your customized loadout since you’ll have a unique name, skin, and set of tools to be identified by.

(tokamak) #4

Cosmetics only get you so far in caring about what you’re working on. Have a look at WoW, they completely disconnected looks from performance. You can look whatever way you want but it’s the actual performance gear that people pursue. Not just better, better,better, it’s all about fine-tuning and getting the specialisation you want.

To just package that in an entire class and hand it over really does seem to miss the point.

(Maca) #5

I’m with you on this one, I do like the balance benefits gained from having at the very least only minimal customization. There can be customization, sure, but it needs to be very contained, like a merc can choose from 2 options in each of his slots. There are 5 slots so that’s already quite a bit of customization isn’t it? If it goes further than this I would wager it’s pretty difficult to balance for an FPS.
We have almost 3 sets of each class already in alpha, so it’s not like we have to settle for one merc per class.

(Protekt1) #6

[QUOTE=tokamak;439377]Cosmetics only get you so far in caring about what you’re working on. Have a look at WoW, they completely disconnected looks from performance. You can look whatever way you want but it’s the actual performance gear that people pursue. Not just better, better,better, it’s all about fine-tuning and getting the specialisation you want.

To just package that in an entire class and hand it over really does seem to miss the point.[/QUOTE]

Ummm yeah… sorry but this isn’t a MMORPG. If you’re looking for heavy customization I suggest playing a MMORPG. Even the heaviest customized competitive shooter doesn’t have number crafting like WoW and thank god for that. In this game and games like it, there isn’t a fraction of the customization compared to WoW. It murders your point by even bringing WoW up in the conversation.

I don’t think we’re even in the same book let alone the same page in talking about customization for a competitive shooter. In competitive shooters the extent of your customization lies primarily with weapon choice and support gear. SD could achieve the same breadth of customization, choice, and uniqueness with specialized classes while still maintaining exactness in balance. Customized loadouts are just about impossible to balance. So why sacrifice balance so people can go on the forums, see someone’s build, and copy it piece for piece because its the best? Even in your example of WoW, people just copy others’ builds anyway. Choice should allow for more options, not less. And all we see with customized loadouts are people min/maxing to make the best possible build. In a way customized loadouts has reduced choice because you’re either using the best possible loadouts or at a disadvantage - something that many people will proclaim makes a free to play game a pay 2 win experience.

You say performance is all people care about and I agree. Which is why every class or loadout, regardless of whether its preset or fully customized, should be balanced with each other to take that component of “performance” out of the equation. Skill should be the determining factor. Not your ability to utilize the latest cheese build.

And I think you’re underestimating the connection of a unique skin/camo because from what I understand LoL is largely successful due to sales on skins.

(Protekt1) #7

[QUOTE=Maca;439378]I’m with you on this one, I do like the balance benefits gained from having at the very least only minimal customization. There can be customization, sure, but it needs to be very contained, like a merc can choose from 2 options in each of his slots. There are 5 slots so that’s already quite a bit of customization isn’t it? If it goes further than this I would wager it’s pretty difficult to balance for an FPS.
We have almost 3 sets of each class already in alpha, so it’s not like we have to settle for one merc per class.[/QUOTE]

I agree that there could be some leeway within each class. But it should be very minimal to promote balance.

(Jonny_Hex) #8

Good call. You psychic? :slight_smile:

(Protekt1) #9

Just basing my conclusion on experience with other competitive shooters with customization. All customized loadouts really does is permit you to gather the strongest weapons and tools. It allows you to min/max to get the best possible combination of stats. I think too much customization actually reduces choice because you’re forced to either use the best loadout or play at a disadvantage.

edited OP to reflect this

(Jonny_Hex) #10

[QUOTE=Protekt1;439385]Just basing my conclusion on experience with other competitive shooters with customization. All customized loadouts really does is permit you to gather the strongest weapons and tools. It allows you to min/max to get the best possible combination of stats. I think too much customization actually reduces choice because you’re forced to either use the best loadout or play at a disadvantage.

edited OP to reflect this[/QUOTE]

I agree. No sarcasm intended.

/hug

(Protekt1) #11

[QUOTE=Jonny_Hex;439389]I agree. No sarcasm intended.

/hug[/QUOTE]

Still helped point out something I could have fleshed out slightly more, all is great :smiley:

(Maca) #12

Great, I’m happy if static mercs are a thing that’ll stay

(nailzor) #13

I do believe that at the end of the day there will be a “most commonly used loadout”, similar to other games (even mobas) - use the best, scrap the crap.

(INF3RN0) #14

Presets allow for more defined balance and dependability. Customization on the other hand gives more user control and variety. I see both having pros and cons. LoL runs the preset champs, but it doesn’t have the same dynamics as this game. I’m really not too sure what would be the best solution. Would people prefer to have just one free option at the start or would they rather have access to all 3 basic styles of play immediately? In the customizable system you would just be able to further distinguish your play style against the 3 free basic styles of combat, mid-ground, supportive. If the preset system is used then I would really prefer it if the mid-ground loadout was the free one and the more specialized ones were unlockable/purchasable.

(Dthy) #15

Customisable loadout would be funny, medic’s with Soldier/F.ops guns haha.

(INF3RN0) #16

I doubt it would work that simply though.

(tokamak) #17

The latter. Definitely the latter. It´s the only way you can get people to start caring about characters that ultimately aren´t theirs.

(Verticae) #18

DB is going to be hard enough to get perfectly balanced as is, let alone if there’d be a few hundred different loadout combo’s to work with. Next to that, I like being able to see a player and roughly know what to expect. The more customization, the less effectively recognizable the classes become. As a simple example; we all know to keep the engineer at a distance to take advantage of their poor ranged damage/accuracy. Should the engineer suddenly come customizable with a sniper rifle, that’d change the entire encounter.

/$0.02

(Hyperg) #19

You prolly haven’t met the turret engi just yet :). He’s almost as deadly as the Fdops mid-range.

I think we’re assuming a bit too much that if such a detailed customization system emerges, it would automatically contain the ingredients to become op and minmaxy across the board (I really doubt you’d ever see a sniper rifle within the loadout of the engi). Granted there are balancing issues and recent games have yet to prove that these issues can be overcome without occasional nerfs/buffs, but I reckon we’re here to point out bad stuff as it happens, not wipe everything else from the start and shape yet another stick figure shooter with 3 guns, which seems to be a popular request across the alpha here.

(INF3RN0) #20

Why does customization come across as slapping a sniper rifle on every class?