Post update feedback.


(Eox) #1

Okay, so yesterday I could play for like, four or five games. The last update rose pretty much a lot of changes, and like a good beta tester I’ll make an early feedback about it. There’s good, there’s bad, and there’s very bad…

Proxy :

When I saw the patch note, this was my main concern. Proxy was shown as pretty harshly nerfed. Speed nerf, mines nerfs, addition of a potential hard counter (if you played scout vs engineers in TF2 you know the struggle)… When I logged on the game I was however slightly nicely surprised to state that the nerf was slightly less big than I though. 450 speed. I expected 445. 445 would have pretty much been killing Proxy IMO, 450 is borderline. I still wish to see that speed at least raised to 455-460 though, but at least she still felt playable.

Arty :

With the introduction of Arty in the free merc rotation, the game felt a bit… Spammy. I also tried Arty myself, and I was really surprised : I actually love that guy, really (I love the Dreiss AR btw) ! But I don’t think CD reduction was the best thing to do for the artillery call. When Arties are stacked, artillery strikes are extremely frequents. While I don’t find it especially game breaking, some player seemed to find it annoying. And in my opinion the problem with the artillery call is more that I feel like I can’t hit poop with. The area of effect feels short, especially since the ability take some time before being fired, so I feel like my enemies can go out of the radius too easly. I’d maybe revert the precedent buff and buff AoE instead.

Aura :

Since her nerf, I feel like health stations are less a pain to get rid. Logic… I’d say when Stoker or Nader will be released she’ll be in a pretty good spot.

Bushwhacker :

Couldn’t try him : insane release price, insane cash price. Ten euros for one merc ? No thanks. I was however surprised to see already see a kinda big amount of Bushwhackers in game (I usually found one on each team on 8vs8 servers). That merc really scared me, because he was basically introducing the “defensive aimbot bullpoop” in the game. If you played TF2 you probably know the struggle of servers with 6 or more engineers in a team, all camping at the last point of the map, creating stalemates and taking out all the fun. And once again I was also nicely surprised : the sentry didn’t felt overpowered. You can take it down easly, I felt like it can still mow down things, and you can’t just dump it, go away and spam them like the common engineer players do with the unfamous mini sentry from TF2. The merc is not the insane fun sucking mass I expected him to be, and that’s pretty cool. Some players says that the sentry is underpowered, I’d wait a bit before tweaking it though, because introducing an aimbot in a shooter game is not something to take lightly.

Quality of life changes :

This is hands down the best part ! The possibility to equip cards outside of the lobby, red lightings for enemy installations (who didn’t notice the red enemy Aura’s stations ?), easier missions for easier credits… Those changes were really needed (missions were already okay before IMO, but those changes make us able to grab money by an easier way, so it’s also nice) ! Nothing more to add, it’s a great job. :slight_smile:

Servers :

Now we’re in the bad part of the feedback : what happened to 66% of our servers ? The server list feels so empty, it’s sad ! We have only like, two stopwatch server per region. This is way too few. How I am supposed to finish that stopwatch mission if I can’t play any because there’s only two stopwatch servers and they are always full ? I really hope this is not intended and we’ll have our servers back.

Merc price :

As I stated in the BushWhacker paragraph : why are mercs so expensive ? Even with the credit buff, even with the easier mission, 30k mercs are a pain to get. At the end the game may end with idlers, or games only done to grab as much cash as possible with farming techniques, and this is really something you guys really want to avoid. I don’t want to see “farm rooms” in that game, what I saw in a lot of game with a simmilar currency system, because when there’s one, there’s usually plenty of them, and you can’t find a server where people are playing the classic way. It’s understandable to make new mercs more expensive, but I really think that allowing people to try the new merc before (ie : put him in free rotation) will have a much more positive impact than this. Also, why is Fragger more expensive than the others ? Is it because he’s meant to be overall better than the others ? In that case this is not acceptable. All mercs should have the same price, no merc should be overall superior.

Fragger :

While we’re at it, I was really disappoint to state that no Fragger nerfs happened in that update. With little practice, nades can become atrocious, unavoidable balls of destruction : emphasis on unavoidable, because this is exactly the problem. You can’t avoid a grenade cooked at the last second at least up to mid range. And more of it, the K-121 just totally wrecks. That gun is insane, when I use Proxy and I find a Fragger it almost always feel like the fact that I looked at Fragger made me die, and I really doubt that this is because Fragger is ugly… Because he’s not that ugly… I mean, from a model point of view… The K-121/nades combo is ugly. Not the model… Whatever, you get it ! We desperately need a nerf of his ability, but the point is that I have no idea of what could be done, since a lot of players actually state that we shouldn’t remove cooking. I’m all for removing cooking in my case, I’d just make the nades slightly faster to explode, and make the nades less visible, to nades can be used in a more stealthy was without being totally OP. For the K-121, damage + lots of ammo + rate of fire make it a vicious combo. I’d suggest to tune down the rate of fire.

That’s all. Overall I’d say I’m rather disappoint with that update. The fact that I can’t try the new content makes it extremely frustrating, nerfs and buffs may not be the best things done, and a lot of point largely despicted by the community are not adressed. I really hope more work at listening the community will be done for the next update.


(srswizard) #2

Fragger nades are great for destroying health stations, and my suggestion for balancing both the nades and stations a little better, is to either:

A ) greatly reduce nade damage to players, but keep cooking in the game, health stations can’t heal players who have been hit by a nade for 4 seconds, or

B ) remove cooking, reduce default detonation time, and make picking up healthstations similar to picking up EMPs, so that picking up stations is no longer instant.

This patch wasn’t half bad, although proxy nerf seems weird to me, and some of the most flawed things weren’t adressed imo, but perhaps they’re being looked into.


(Glot) #3

Agreed with Eox.
I was afraid of Proxy becoming too weak. but she is OK.
still pwns, but not to that extent, she did before.

main issue:
i cannot switch from Mine-to-gun now?? WTF?
i drop a mine, want to switch, but instead i drop second mine =((((


(ev1ldarks) #4

I still have a problem with the fact that Aura is now the fastest character…
Proxy is the archetype of the scout, and rely on her speed to fast reach objectives, its fastness makes sense imho. But now she is slower than a defensive medic ?
I really don’t understand the idea ^^

Played several games yesturday, and Aura is still a pretty efficient rambo medic :*


(solt.) #5

[quote=“ev1ldarks;13315”]Proxy is the archetype of the scout, and rely on her speed to fast reach objectives, its fastness makes sense imho. But now she is slower than a defensive medic ?
[/quote]

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that Aura’s design intention is to be a ‘mobile medic’.

I’m not arguing that this goal has been met, but I don’t think it’s as inexplicable as you do that Aura is the fastest Merc.


(Szakalot) #6

[quote=“solt.;13317”][quote=“ev1ldarks;13315”]Proxy is the archetype of the scout, and rely on her speed to fast reach objectives, its fastness makes sense imho. But now she is slower than a defensive medic ?
[/quote]

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that Aura’s design intention is to be a ‘mobile medic’.

I’m not arguing that this goal has been met, but I don’t think it’s as inexplicable as you do that Aura is the fastest Merc.[/quote]

funny how aura is the ‘mobile medic’ with the ‘stationary heal’ right?


(solt.) #7

Very, my favourite joke.

I think it could work, but they need to seriously reapproach it.

Cyanide has some good ideas on his thread: here.

Which got me thinking:

[quote=“solt.;12761”]
I like this, especially because it feels as if it feeds into Aura’s original design intention of a ‘Mobile Medic’.

Aura’s healing station should not be seen as a permanent bunker for her entire team to hold for an entire round. It should be a ‘set & forget’ healing solution.

The only problem I see with this is the potential for healing being squandered by too many people crowding the station.

A few solutions:
-Change the healing cap to a ‘per Merc’ limit. Say can heal a maximum of X (percentage of that Merc’s max HP) per Merc.
-Make it so that the station can only heal Y Mercs at a time, and it have it prioritize the lowest HP Mercs.[/quote]


(Amerika) #8

What I don’t get about the Fragger nade talk is you can easily make a Fragger player waste them. If you see a Fragger, which are super easy to spot on the map, and they stop firing or aren’t firing you know they are cooking a nade. Just move from the area when you see this. Watch the nade come in and not kill you. I bait these non-stop and now only die to nades that were meant for other people and I just happened to move into that area…which is pretty rare.

Seriously, just try this. Fragger will still be good but he will be way less effective if you know how to play against them.

As for Bushwacker I think the merc and the turret is already in a good spot. I played as him quite a bit yesterday and the turret is nice but it’s not the beat that is the TF2 turret. It simply helps out. It’s pretty easy to kill so if you place it in an obvious spot it will get destroyed and not even get a shot off (and that’s considering my loadout cards 30% faster target acquisition). The one thing I did see that might be abused is that you can hide behind a turret so it can soak bullets and I didn’t test this but a guy on my team said the turret could be healed. Aura station and a couple of Bushwackers camping behind their turrets might be a bit strong in areas that might not be easily countered by a Fragger nade.


(Szakalot) #9

[quote=“Amerika;13332”]What I don’t get about the Fragger nade talk is you can easily make a Fragger player waste them. If you see a Fragger, which are super easy to spot on the map, and they stop firing or aren’t firing you know they are cooking a nade. Just move from the area when you see this. Watch the nade come in and not kill you. I bait these non-stop and now only die to nades that were meant for other people and I just happened to move into that area…which is pretty rare.

Seriously, just try this. Fragger will still be good but he will be way less effective if you know how to play against them.[/quote]

So basically if you see a Fragger and he isnt shooting at you you have to run?

Good tip about baiting nades, I do that a lot too; but nade cooking can be cancelled, so in either offensive/defensive situation Fragger can taunt you to runaway from his instakill ability. Not the best gameplay mechanic. The closer you got to this was PF in W:ET, which you either die from or stomp the pfer.


(Zenity) #10

I have no complaints about balance for now, and I’m in complete agreement with the small-steps approach they are deploying. Forums are always full of complaints either about something that is considered OP, or something that recently got nerfed. I know some people would like to see more radical changes, but that will inevitably upset a lot of other people and take some of the enjoyment away. After decades of following game development, I can’t think of a better way to go about game balance then exactly what SD is doing.

Right now most mercs seem fun to play, and I don’t absolutely hate playing against anyone. Ultimately that’s what really matters. I actually enjoy dealing with the problems posed by Auras or Fraggers and I don’t feel that either is completely dominating the game.

Regarding the quality of life improvements (which are mostly great): Shuffling doesn’t really seem to work well so far, since most people don’t even notice the vote box. Perhaps it needs to be more noticeable, or perhaps this will improve as people become aware of its existence and start looking for it when teams are unbalanced. I’m also not sure if the credit penalties will do anything to encourage team balance, and they seem to be very small from what I can tell so far.

I haven’t been able to find the minimap setting yet, anybody know where it is? :slight_smile: In general the in game and menu options are still extremely inconsistent, I hope this will be consolidated at some point, as keeping both in sync seems to be hard.

I recently completed a daily but the bonus credits were not displayed. Also the totals seem to be bugged for some time now.

I have no complaints about the pricing either. Right now I don’t have an incentive to buy Bushwhacker, but that’s perfectly ok. They can sell him now at higher prices and I will buy him whenever I feel like it or get a good deal. Whether they would sell more at a lower price point is entirely speculative and up to their marketing team to work out.

All in all I’m quite happy with how things are going so far and I’m looking forward to the next update.


(solt.) #11

I’d agree with this.

Massive quantities of any given class are frustrating, but that’s the nature of public/non-competitive play.


(Amerika) #12

[quote=“Szakalot;13353”][quote=“Amerika;13332”]What I don’t get about the Fragger nade talk is you can easily make a Fragger player waste them. If you see a Fragger, which are super easy to spot on the map, and they stop firing or aren’t firing you know they are cooking a nade. Just move from the area when you see this. Watch the nade come in and not kill you. I bait these non-stop and now only die to nades that were meant for other people and I just happened to move into that area…which is pretty rare.

Seriously, just try this. Fragger will still be good but he will be way less effective if you know how to play against them.[/quote]

So basically if you see a Fragger and he isnt shooting at you you have to run?

Good tip about baiting nades, I do that a lot too; but nade cooking can be cancelled, so in either offensive/defensive situation Fragger can taunt you to runaway from his instakill ability. Not the best gameplay mechanic. The closer you got to this was PF in W:ET, which you either die from or stomp the pfer.[/quote]

I run from the immediate area I’m in and hopefully go towards another angle to shoot the guy as he’s tossing. You can cancel nades, which I do all the time and see others do, but you can bait them long enough to throw it. I play Ultra Street Fighter IV and there is a technique called safe jumping. You basically make the other guy want to throw out a dragon punch/anti-air but you make it safe by landing and being able to block, with proper timing, giving you a punish opportunity. I treat playing against a Fragger the same way. It won’t always work (just like in SF4) but it does work pretty often and can give you the upper hand.

If people played a bit smarter they would be way less frustrated. I do believe most of the cast is fairly balanced given their particular roles and the fact that every single one of them can be a killing machine or an objective machine in their own ways. I used to not think Vassili was very good but after learning the ropes and the angles on maps I now consider him in-line with most everyone else and seeing people through walls might be one of the best utility abilities in the game. I think a lot of negativity comes from players who play one style and one style only. Proxy’s that try to strafe shoot with an F-ops or Fragger instead of running and flanking. Medics that don’t take pot shots and run and heal real fast. Not baiting Fragger nades, not moving a lot with Vassili or jump shooting with him (this isn’t an AWP people).

That’s just my two cents. Putting in consistent 40 kill sides while still doing objectives/doing what my class is supposed to with almost every class makes me believe they are all pretty damn viable at a pub/pug level. Competition is a different topic though.


(Eox) #13

I add another bad point on the Feedback : CRITICAL ERRORS !

This is at least the seventh time I got those errors, sometimes without even getting the critical error window. So far they seem to happen randomly. This is extemely infuriating to get disconnected from the game due to those errors. Please fix ASAP.


(Amerika) #14

[quote=“Eox;13435”]I add another bad point on the Feedback : CRITICAL ERRORS !

This is at least the seventh time I got those errors, sometimes without even getting the critical error window. So far they seem to happen randomly. This is extemely infuriating to get disconnected from the game due to those errors. Please fix ASAP. [/quote]

A windows critical error? If it’s a windows critical error could you paste it? If you don’t know, you get there by going to Control Panel\Administrative tools\Event Viewer and then choose Windows Logs and find the red marked logs and see if those have info in them to paste. Might want to check System too.


(melancholyAbility) #15

One thing I’d like to add;

Even though only athis happened to optimisation; ‘Optimised decal performance’. My FPS has gone up significantly, to a point where I can comfortably play the game without any drops. Average FPS increse of about 50 (!) FPS (110->160), and the drops are less significant.

Has anyone else had this, or am I just really lucky somehow?


(Eox) #16

[quote=“Amerika;13439”][quote=“Eox;13435”]I add another bad point on the Feedback : CRITICAL ERRORS !

This is at least the seventh time I got those errors, sometimes without even getting the critical error window. So far they seem to happen randomly. This is extemely infuriating to get disconnected from the game due to those errors. Please fix ASAP. [/quote]

A windows critical error? If it’s a windows critical error could you paste it? If you don’t know, you get there by going to Control Panel\Administrative tools\Event Viewer and then choose Windows Logs and find the red marked logs and see if those have info in them to paste. Might want to check System too.[/quote]

Nanah, it’s a “in game error window”, not a window triggered by my operative system (ie : Windows). Nothing is explained, sadly. :confused:

However thanks for the tip, it’ll be very helpful when I’ll get real “windows errors”, whatever the game or the software I use.


(Amerika) #17

Yeah, it’s super handy info to know for troubleshooting windows and windows application errors. GL with that issue!


(kittenishBlender) #18

I’m also very disappointed by this update, indeed, though it’s a good news to hear new mercs entering the ring, I don’t think it’s right to sell a new one for 50 k…

Indeed, as Eox said, you need to play like tons of games to earn 30 k, which takes a loads of hours & patience to achieve this.

I know I may be a ignorant but I think your cash shop system could be improved.
Here’s how I would see this:

Lower the price of the mercs 15k sounds good, but you can sell weapons/mercs skins for real money. That’s how Valve’s games with “cash shop system” are working, and perticulary TF2. Indeed in TF2, you don’t have to buy for mercs, rather you pay for hats & cosmectic items and it’s working like a charm !

I’m repeating myself but so far DB is a really good game, the problem is your business plan. I know you’re thinking about incomes but isn’t it a bit too much ?


(Buttback) #19

I’m confused why someone that (apparently) likes TF2 has an issue with spam? I think Arty needed the buff, he was in a pretty bad spot before the patch.

The thing about stacking is nonsense in my opinion. Stack Aura’s and you have an unkillable insane regen team. Stack Fraggers and you have an extremely dangerous anti-camp team. Stack Vassili’s and you won’t be able to move across open ground without getting instagibbed.

Overall I liked the patch. Especially the Proxy nerf and the daily mission changes were needed in my opinion.

One thing that’s really concering me is the technical aspect of the patches though. The patch before this one caused FPS issues for a lot of people. This one makes my game crash during and after matches, making the game unplayable for me.