Plz let every class ruin games

(RectalTerror) #21

@B_Montiel said:
For that very reason, even great aimers are still a burden for their team because they’re >generally off-pace with the rest of their teammates. Thus making sniper, even good ones, a >lesser threat than better medics/supports/engineers.

Totally. While that place they can exploit in Underground is a problem to win, in other maps even 2 good snipers are often a problem for their own team. They won’t bother trying to disarm, they won’t much help their team, they are there for the kills & are fine with that.

Which is why I much prefer snipers in the other team than in mine. But I still hate them.

And to be fair, in other maps there is generally a place to hide from snipers. But there’s sometimes a spot they can exploit & really block the game.
SD could just put some pile of crates so that a sniper sitting on that spot in Underground wouldn’t have a direct view on the lift’s door, maybe.

(Begin2018) #22

@kopyright said:
Every class can already ruin the game if played properly by a skilled person.
Not exactly, Javelin ruin the game even with no skill.

(GatoCommodore) #23

You dont punish someone for being good

Period.

(Nail) #24

1im99om.jpg960x948

(hurgya) #25

@376E1AE459B1 said:
Totally. While that place they can exploit in Underground is a problem to win, in other maps even 2 good snipers are often a problem for their own team. They won’t bother trying to disarm, they won’t much help their team, they are there for the kills & are fine with that.

Which is why I much prefer snipers in the other team than in mine. But I still hate them.

And to be fair, in other maps there is generally a place to hide from snipers. But there’s sometimes a spot they can exploit & really block the game.
SD could just put some pile of crates so that a sniper sitting on that spot in Underground wouldn’t have a direct view on the lift’s door, maybe.

So the problem is not with the class itself, but some OP sniping positions

Right now you can’t “get good at defusing”, but it’d be possible to do.

But you CAN be good/bad at defusing: If there are enemies around do you wit with the defuse, until every single one of them is dead? Do you risk getting shot while teammates keep them occupied? Sure, it doesn’t require good reflexes, and often the situation is trivial, but it’s still a skill.

I don’t believe in “learning how to aim”, it’s a matter of reflexes, and I’m too old for that.

With 90% of the weapons you don’t need good reflexes to have good aim. Sure, it can be a substitute for game sense, but this ain’t CoD deathmatch, where the enemy could come from anywhere. If you know, where the enemy will be, you din’t need to be twitchy. This isn’t completely true for snipers, especially with Sparps, where you can’t hold your max damage shots forever. But you don’t need to be able to snipe, to kill a sniper. If you are in range of your weapon you can 1v1 a sniper due to aimpunch.

(ClemClem7) #26

@376E1AE459B1 said:

@znuund said:
Against a god-aim sniper it’s not even the subject, he kills me before I see him.
The lift door opens and you are dead. Just tell me what you’d do there. There is simply nowhere to go, except staying in the lift and going back.
This game is not a “headless chicken run” simulation. If a sniper kill you at the elevator, don’t try to kill him if he’s better than you or if he uses the map better than you.
You just don’t take the elevator and take the right path to plant where he has no line of sight with you.
This game is not a killing competition but
an obj-based game
If he’s better with a sniper, he can rekt you with about everything else.
Good players are good, even if they can’t one shot you, they will kill you. Sniper like you describe are awfully good, everybody have reaction time, even reflex is not instant, it’s physiological.
If he kill you before you can even see him, maybe stop looking at your reflect in your screen and start looking at the fucking game (or stop being such predictable like a headless chicken).

(binderr) #27

If a player is on frenzy kill looks too good to be true, i’de check their steam profile for how many hours of db they got on record but if its a private profile, thats when you should be suspicious! maybe cheating or maybe just good gamer!

(watsyurdeal) #28

(hoyes) #29

The flaw I see with games in general nowadays is that devs need to reward good players for doing well in a game, enough to justify them playing the game more to get better. This ofc is a good idea, as it adds a skill ceiling to a game and can be for the better of said game if done right.

I do not think snipers have been done right here, even after the nerfs.

Yes, it does take some skill to take down a few enemies with a sniper one after another, and when its constant, I HAVE to give credit where credit is due. However, the fact that this can potentially ruin a game unless you have a sniper => to the other sniper, chances are you have lost, or face an extreme setback.

The devs can change snipers as much as they want, but they forget to add something extremely key. BETTER COUNTERPLAY.

Rushing a good sniper doesn’t work, especially if its vassili, they will just hs you if you come close (trust me, I do this all the time when playing vas). The only way it would even be remotely possible to kill a good sniper is to be good at sniping yourself, or by using explosives in indirect combat, out of their LoS, but these are on a long cooldown and require setup/ have limitations while snipers have a cooldown that is around 2 seconds and have little to no limitations that are unavoidable.

This begs the question as what would happen when everyone in a high-level game can snipe. what happens then?

Will everyone choose to snipe? Or will they know that everyone can counter them so they choose not to? (This is why we have merc limits)

Insta kills are a major flaw of this game imo, where this game should be about retalliation and having the person with better aim always win a 1v1. Snipers still get a free win in a 1v1 everytime, just are weaker at killing multiple enemies. I suppose people could counteract this argument by saying it is a ‘team game’, and it is your fault if you aren’t in a position where a team can protect you.

To which I would respond, if I need my team with me to counter one sniper, who is not supported by his team at the back of the map, something is very wrong.

(watsyurdeal) #30

The thing is the counter play is there, just horribly implemented.

Aim punch should actually affect Snipers where landing shots while receiving flinch is considerably more difficult than it is now. Suppressing Fire should work on them, but it doesn’t.

Because SD has yet to crack the secret on having visual only aimpunch from wolfenstein ET, and the current aimpunch, coexisting.

When a target is hit, the only time their cross hair should move from aimpunch, is when aiming down sights. Hipfire should not be affected, but you should still have a clear visual indicator that you’re being shot.

That’s a legitimate complaint imo, saying we should go the Prometheus Lens route is not.

(znuund) #31

@376E1AE459B1 said:
Thanks Mr. UselessTips. It’d already be a miracle if I could convince 1 guy to join me in the lift to go kill a sniper, who’s there waiting to headshot us both next to his Aura’s station.
sigh

@ClemClem7 said:
This game is not a “headless chicken run” simulation. If a sniper kill you at the elevator, don’t try to kill him if he’s better than you or if he uses the map better than you.
You just don’t take the elevator and take the right path to plant where he has no line of sight with you.
This is how you should think. Plus: Nader works like a miracle against healing stations. People are not invincible on healing stations.

@376E1AE459B1 said:
Totally, because it works. I generally kill fraggers by dancing around them, especially double-jumping on walls. What would be my chances if I stood still in front of them?
It only works against and is the general believe of potatoes.

I don’t believe in “learning how to aim”, it’s a matter of reflexes, and I’m too old for that.
One 40+ old guy doesn’t “learn how to run” & suddenly breaks 100m records. That’s why I play an obj-based game, I can do obj, I can’t compete with people half my age when it comes to fragging. I was still ok in RTCW 15+ years ago, but I can’t even compare as the time-to-kill was much higher back then. Fragging was way more a strategy back then.
I know you believe, you stated it already in this thread several times. But you believe in the wrong things.
You don’t need to break the 100m record… You just see if you set your mouse sensitivity correctly and turn off mouse acceleration. I am 33y old and I can compete with many, but not all of the players of DB.
And btw: 3 hs from a mp40/thompson is a pretty quick TTK.

(LifeupOmega) #32

Instant ttk with no cooldown should never have been a thing in a high ttk game anyway.

(watsyurdeal) #33

The rate of fire is technically a cooldown :wink:

(TheStrangerous) #34

GOOD IDEA!

(RectalTerror) #35

@ClemClem7 said:
This game is not a “headless chicken run” simulation. If a sniper kill you at the elevator, don’t try to kill him if he’s better than you or if he uses the map better than you.
You just don’t take the elevator and take the right path to plant where he has no line of sight with you.
This game is not a killing competition but

an obj-based game
If he’s better with a sniper, he can rekt you with about everything else.
Good players are good, even if they can’t one shot you, they will kill you. Sniper like you describe are awfully good, everybody have reaction time, even reflex is not instant, it’s physiological.

You don’t get it, I don’t care about a sniper up there, I go straight to plant, either from the roof, or from the left. But a sniper there controls both, that’s my point.

It only leaves the right, which is way too easily closed & protected by the rest of their team. It makes it pretty much impossible.
You just cannot reach the left & even less the center without being in sight.

If he’s better with a sniper, he can rekt you with about everything else.
Good players are good, even if they can’t one shot you, they will kill you. Sniper like you >describe are awfully good, everybody have reaction time, even reflex is not instant, it’s >physiological.

That’s not the point anyway. To me DB isn’t an arena FPS, if it was, it would constantly display K&D (& sadly for some players it’s all that matters).
This is why I play proxy & aura, generally avoiding long-range fights that I know I can’t win. It is definitely a problem when the objective is unreachable because a ray of god kills you at any point trying to reach it.
And I’m above lvl70, I do know my paths to objs (& it’s not like Underground had that many).

(RectalTerror) #36

@jooshoyes said:
This begs the question as what would happen when everyone in a high-level game can snipe. what happens then?

Will everyone choose to snipe? Or will they know that everyone can counter them so they choose not to? (This is why we have merc limits)

I’ve played several games against 2 very good snipers, and I think we won all of them, because 2 or 3 snipers in a team really cripples the team.

2 or 3 bad snipers and the othe team is done. 2 or 3 good snipers, it can take 3/4 of the time to finally reach the obj, but once it’s planted, chances are that they won’t even have an eng & the snipers will be useless. With escorts it’s much easier as you can at least hide behind the EV.

So that’s the prob with snipers, they ruin games whether it’s for their team or the other. But they don’t care because they’re there for K/D. I remember when the game wasn’t rewarding that, when seeing a sniper at the top of the scoreboard meant he was cheating.

I won’t say that snipers are purely useless because ok, Vassili’s sensor is midly useful. Aime’s thing is ok. Red eye however… is generally annoying both sides with his smoke…
But still, snipers can’t heal, can’t give ammo, will always stay in the back so never push objs or plant. Which would be ok in teams of 15 people, but not 7.

(ClemClem7) #37

@376E1AE459B1 said:
So that’s the prob with snipers, they ruin games whether it’s for their team or the other. But they don’t care because they’re there for K/D. I remember when the game wasn’t rewarding that, when seeing a sniper at the top of the scoreboard meant he was cheating.

I won’t say that snipers are purely useless because ok, Vassili’s sensor is midly useful. Aime’s thing is ok. Red eye however… is generally annoying both sides with his smoke…
But still, snipers can’t heal, can’t give ammo, will always stay in the back so never push objs or plant. Which would be ok in teams of 15 people, but not 7.

When I play sniper (and I rarely do) I usually do well because I don’t stay in the back but I push with everyone.
Snipers have downside which you can exploit when you play against them (small FOV while scoped, low sensitivity). All you need is surprise him, flank and harass him.
If you can avoid him he become useless. If you run to him or don’t take care of his line of sight, he owe the right to kill you and delay your attack.
If you flank him and he kill you, you do something wrong or he is godlike. But someone who constant headshot you (as skilled as this sniper) will kill you before you can even react too.
If a skilled player is that good, that he crowed control the whole game, he deserve the easy win. And you just need to try it better or harder, or give up.
This is the same thing in many games, sniper is hard but rewarding, 1hs kill someone is the best feeling I have in every game I play, but it requires skill.
Think of it like “life is unfair”, someone will always be better than you, that doesn’t say he doesn’t deserve his skill (irl, if someone is a genius or a good CEO, he deserve to be rich and to succeed in life and drive a supercar when you take the bus)
If the game is unfair, ask to shuffle. If after a shuffle he still is as good, he deserve it.

I don’t say godlike snipers are not annoying, but it’s part of the game and for me clearly not unbalanced as it’s hard to do so. High risk high reward game.
I don’t say you’re bad, but it seems you make it a bigger problem than it really is. Don’t focus on them and you will get over them.

Tldr: life is unfair, get over it

(RectalTerror) #38

@ClemClem7 said:
Think of it like “life is unfair”, someone will always be better than you, that doesn’t say he >doesn’t deserve his skill (irl, if someone is a genius or a good CEO, he deserve to be rich >and to succeed in life and drive a supercar when you take the bus)

But I don’t think it’s normal for a team-based game to be able to be so much unbalanced by 1 single player.
It just means it’s a game flaw, IMHO. There would be ways to make god-like aimers be less of a problem, while not impacting normal aimers.

Fletcher used to be a cheat piece and you were finding more of them in games than today. It didn’t mean Fletcher was so easy to handle - I couldn’t use it because of the weird control scheme. But some did and they were god-like. It eventually got fixed, Fletcher not a problem anymore, yet some are still using it, so it’s not broken either.

(also, we must not be living in the same world, geniuses aren’t rewarded with money here)

(LifeupOmega) #39

High risk high reward game.

Today I learned that zero spread one shots with no falloff are a high risk.

(znuund) #40

You know, if one guy is good enough to hold your whole team down, then it is because this guy is good enough. And he deserves it. In the explained situation in underground, you can clearly take any route with a TEAM. going left path? revive while others suppress the sniper and keep going forward. once you passed that stage, you sniper is not such a threat anymore. Unfortunately it is one of the situations where bunny hoping shotguns do nothing :slight_smile:

But you seem like someone, who is inert to advice and likes to put himself into the poor little old fart position who has no chance against the world. Dude, you are only 40y old and that is an age I see reflexes still being ok compared to the majority of players. Lower your sensitivity, sit higher at the table and try to keep your mouse arm swift and see what is the result.