Please nerf slashkill

[Coolhand]

The /kill issue is far more than just a question of whether some players might use it to deny the enemy a kill (reading up, this was not even part of the original poster’s point).

[B]Visa - It was me claiming that /kill is an exploit, you weren’t misquoted, bani simply failed to quote me.

bani - you insist on “proof” that /kill is an exploit. To quote your own words:

i sometimes use /kill if i need to be closer to a spawnpoint and im far away, and the respawn timer is nearing 0. its much faster than running all the way across the map.

To my mind “teleportation” is one very clear example of a /kill exploit.

Let’s not get into the “realism” debate, but the simple fact of the matter is that ET is the latest (and IMO the greatest) in a long line of wargame simulations. One precursor of the games we now play is the board wargame. When I played these I was not allowed to pick up my cardboard counter units and magically transport them across the map - even though I could do so because the mechanics of the game allowed this. Of course there were some players who would stoop to this kind of activity given half a chance - there was a word for this kind of thing, and the word was “cheating”.

It’s clear that you (and all the “professional” clan-gamers) have invested a lot of time into developing strategies that require the use of /kill. I completely understand your reluctance to consider parting with a tool that you so obviously find essential in order to compete. And those who develop games of this type will continue to include /kill as long as a large part of the game community believes that there is nothing wrong with it.

I urge you to think of the bigger picture. In the future, there is a very real possibility that pro-gaming can turn into a true spectator sport. Don’t you think the spectators (who do not share our in-depth understanding of the game mechanics) might perhaps wonder why players disappear from the battlefield and reappear elsewhere for no apparent reason?

IMO /kill will eventually disappear - I would simply rather that this happens sooner rather than later. I ask you to just consider whether you and all the other pro-gamers would be better off developing strategies that do not require /kill now, rather than later.

From my perspective as a casual Wolfie addict who just enjoys playing a great game, there is absolutely no good reason to retain /kill at all, and several very good arguments for ditching it.

[Kendle]

What we’ve got here is…

Getting dizzy from going round in circles here…

Good points CoolHand, well thought out and presented, however… the fact is that when you die you do “teleport” to some other point in the map. If pro-gaming takes off and it becomes a spectator sport you’d have to completely re-structure the game to overcome this irrespective of whether /kill is removed or not. And, as has been mentioned many times, you can kill yourself anyway by eating a nade, for instance, albeit it takes a bit longer.

Removing the /kill command would have limited effect, wouldn’t address your points about pro-gaming and spectators, and wouldn’t unduly stress Clans that have built it into their strats.

Think this thread needs to be closed now as we’re not getting anywhere.

[Coolhand]

the fact is that when you die you do “teleport” to some other point in the map. If pro-gaming takes off and it becomes a spectator sport you’d have to completely re-structure the game to overcome this irrespective of whether /kill is removed or not.

I disagree. There is a big difference between seeing a player being obviously killed in battle (often in spectacular fashion), and seeing one simply vanish into thin air for no apparent reason. As I’ve suggested earlier in this thread, this can also be equally jarring for the player’s own teammates, too.

The fact that the player reappears as a part of a body of reinforcements is an essential part of the game mechanics (how else could you allow players who had been killed to rejoin the fray?). From the spectator’s point of view, these people might not even be the same as the ones who die - in terms of the simulation they are fresh reinforcement troops.

And, as has been mentioned many times, you can kill yourself anyway by eating a nade, for instance, albeit it takes a bit longer.

You’ve got to admit that this is very different from taking an instant effect teleport pill.

If /kill were removed and players resorted to killing themselves in other ways, might the spectators not think this was more than a little bit peculiar? At the end of the day killing yourself is a pretty lame thing to do, however you do it.

In my opinion /kill simply does not belong in the context of a wargame simulation.

[C3P0]Shutting up, sir.[/C3P0]

[Kendle]

Someone stop the roundabout, I wanna get off, soooo dddiiiizzzzyyyy…

There is a big difference between seeing a player being obviously killed in battle (often in spectacular fashion), and seeing one simply vanish into thin air for no apparent reason.

Nope, you execute /kill and your body falls to the ground and slowly disappears into it, just as it would if you were shot.

Your point about spectators is pretty weak too. Who’s going to be watching a game they know nothing about?

blah, blah, going on holiday next week…maybe the dizziness will be gone when I come back…

[Coolhand]

Nope, you execute /kill and your body falls to the ground and slowly disappears, just as it would if you were shot.

Are you certain of this? It’s my impression that in ET at least, when you use /kill the body just vanishes immediately, and the gun goes “pop!” onto the ground.

Edit:

Yes, my mistake. I’ve seen people vanish and assumed that they were using /kill - perhaps they were simply disconnecting? But, in any case, this does not affect the rest of my argument. I still have yet to see anyone provide any good reason to keep /kill, and to my mind it just does not belong in a game like ET.

[bani]

It’s clear that you (and all the “professional” clan-gamers) have invested a lot of time into developing strategies that require the use of /kill. I completely understand your reluctance to consider parting with a tool that you so obviously find essential in order to compete. And those who develop games of this type will continue to include /kill as long as a large part of the game community believes that there is nothing wrong with it.

i dont find it essential to compete, its a tool like any other. if its gone then players will just eat nades and you havent solved a thing.

lets see some demos proving its a problem, or let it drop, mmmkay? :moo:

[bani]

I disagree. There is a big difference between seeing a player being obviously killed in battle (often in spectacular fashion), and seeing one simply vanish into thin air for no apparent reason. As I’ve suggested earlier in this thread, this can also be equally jarring for the player’s own teammates, too.

since when do players vanish into thin air? you must be talking about some other ET than the rest of us.

In my opinion /kill simply does not belong in the context of a wargame simulation.

since you’re insisting on realism, i would argue forward spawnpoints dont belong either. i mean really, groups of players suddenly teleporting into the middle of enemy lines? if /kill goes then forward spawns should go too, to keep consistent.

[_B_Visa]

its nice to talk about the theoretical problem of /kill depriving the other team of (somenumber)% of their XP, but ive never seen nor heard of this happening in any game - pub or clan.

until someone posts a demo proving this is a problem, lets just drop it ok?

So you’re telling me since I don’t have a demo of the few instances then it’s not a problem… I’ll just close my eyes and hope everything gets better.

Whether you’ve seen it or not, can’t you see how this might hurt the opposing team? I don’t understand why you can’t see this… It may not be a huge problem by any stretch of the imagination but all I’m asking for is for XP to be docked the way points were in Wolf.

If you just want to drop the subject then just stop reading and posting on this thread.

Thanks,

Ike-T

[bani]

Visa]It may not be a huge problem by any stretch of the imagination but all I’m asking for is for XP to be docked the way points were in Wolf.

actually you also suggested longer respawn time, and that you thought nerfed recharge was a good idea too.

changed your mind?

show me a demo where players are using it as a tactic to deny the other team of XP. even if its not a huge problem you should be able to get at least a single demo of it right?

[Gump]

I’ve exploited /kill. I read this thread a couple of days ago and decided to give it a try.

On the beach map with the gun, as axis. I played a Field Op and would go chuck an airstrike or call in some arty. I’d then shoot around some with my smg and when the timer came around and if I wasn’t close to being recharged yet, I’d /kill and do it again. This is the only map I’ve seen so far that this is a useful tactic, simply because the spawnpoint is right by the main battlefield.

If this isn’t an exploit, I don’t know what it is. Of course there’s a simple fix, if you /kill, start your power bar at 0 on respawn.

As far as the rest of the so-called exploits. I’ve never seen anyone /kill against me in a fire-fight to rob me of xp. If they wanna do that it’s fine though, I think they’re just doing their team a disservice by making my job that much easier.

[bani]

If this isn’t an exploit, I don’t know what it is. Of course there’s a simple fix, if you /kill, start your power bar at 0 on respawn.

so theyll just eat nades instead.

[_B_Visa]

actually you also suggested longer respawn time, and that you thought nerfed recharge was a good idea too.

changed your mind?

show me a demo where players are using it as a tactic to deny the other team of XP. even if its not a huge problem you should be able to get at least a single demo of it right?

No I think Repoman suggested longer respawn time… I would be up for seeing how that would work. Also yes I think it would be interesting to see how an empty recharge bar worked out also.

However, I realize that there is little chance of either of those options being passed since they didn’t catch on with normal wolf so I figure why not also treat it like normal Wolf and take away a few points of XP…

As far as taking a demo, it wouldn’t do much good since you can’t tell when their respawn time is and I’ve only seen it once in an organized scrim (with multiple players) and once on a pub (by one person)…

I’m just trying to get people to see the possibility of how this could adversely affect a game.

Ike-T

[HellToupee]

you people dont get it, eating nades is not easy u have to press 4 hold button down for 4 seconds, /kill u see with 1 second to go u press a button you instant dead very very easy, if you are low on ammo and health medics and lts should be your option not killing yourself, if you want to get across the map in a hurry /killing should not be an option running should be.

/killing is lame i have 0 respect for anyone using it on a pub, even as mortar when out of ammo i will equip a grenade and try and take an enemy down with me. You say they will just eat a nade i disagree nading yourself is alot of hassle often players will have no nades, u cant nade yourself in time in a fight, you cant nade yourself with 3 seconds to go on the spawn timer, you cant bind nade self to a key.

/kill should make spawner spawn with 0 recharge, and/or increase spawn time. sure it stuffs people who get stuck in the map but hey thats that a common thing.

Y do you defend /kill what positive aspect to the game dose it bring, answer is none its an exploit, its not the way the game is meant to be played. It sure looks real stupid on wolftv to see a fight then one whole side just /kill, really looks lame.

/kill is for lammas

[bani]

5 seconds with nade vs 1 second with /kill, its all the same to me. nerf /kill and the only “exploit” youll “fix” is the “xp stealing exploit”. all the others remain.

instead of /kill at 1 second on the respawn clock people will just prime the nade at 5. same effect. its not like the respawn timer suddenly jumps out at you from nowhere with 1 second left.

getting across the map in a hurry, respawning for ammo and recharge, they still remain and only takes a few seconds longer to get them.

go ahead and remove /kill entirely, im sure it will make you all feel warm and fuzzy inside. doesnt change a single thing for me though since i never used /kill to “steal xp” and never saw anyone do it, ever. and it wont change a single thing for any other experienced player.

[_B_Visa]

All I’m saying at this point is that it should be treated like the /kill in Wolf and take away a few XP points… I think it’d be the best thing for it, whether you have or haven’t seen it used in the manner I described…

Ike-T

[HellToupee]

5 seconds with nade vs 1 second with /kill, its all the same to me. nerf /kill and the only “exploit” youll “fix” is the “xp stealing exploit”. all the others remain.

instead of /kill at 1 second on the respawn clock people will just prime the nade at 5. same effect. its not like the respawn timer suddenly jumps out at you from nowhere with 1 second left.

getting across the map in a hurry, respawning for ammo and recharge, they still remain and only takes a few seconds longer to get them.

go ahead and remove /kill entirely, im sure it will make you all feel warm and fuzzy inside. doesnt change a single thing for me though since i never used /kill to “steal xp” and never saw anyone do it, ever. and it wont change a single thing for any other experienced player.

well yes the respawn timer dose get you, often a panza might fire just in time hit /kill and respawn, now if he had to nade theres a dely to get it uot then to use it probly take u 6-7 seconds now thats a long time, also the xp stealing exploit gone is reason enough, the extra time it takes a grenade would mean far far less people resort to it as its alot more trouble, only a determined person will do it.

Play the game its meant to be played

[Cyber-Knight]

Your body does not vanish into thin air when you type /kill

i know cuz I’ve done it before and I saw where my body was lying on the floor.

do it during warm-up, you can do it a million times, there will be a million of your dead bodies on the floor.

of course, youc an still steal the uniform.

[bani]

well yes the respawn timer dose get you, often a panza might fire just in time hit /kill and respawn, now if he had to nade theres a dely to get it uot then to use it probly take u 6-7 seconds now thats a long time, also the xp stealing exploit gone is reason enough, the extra time it takes a grenade would mean far far less people resort to it as its alot more trouble, only a determined person will do it.

its not as hard as you think it is. just for grins i unbound my /kill key and played a bunch of rounds tonight using nade suicides instead of /kill and it didnt change a thing for me.

as for panzers firing just in time for a /kill in respawn, it just means they will look at the timer as 5 instead of 0 and fire off before 5, then eat a nade. it doesnt take 6-7 seconds to eat a nade :moo:

but if it makes you somehow feel more secure, go ahead and nerf /kill.

wont change the way i play nor will it change any other experienced player’s tactics. youre only fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

next thing you know, youll all be back here complaining about how grenade suicides need to be nerfed :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[NOYB]

“They’ll just eat nades instead”

Fine! Let them. That’s their prerogative. However, there’s a big difference between /kill and switch to grenade and wait for the explosion. In a firefight, it’s the difference between denying XP and just dying.

Why not add 5 seconds before the /kill command takes affect? That would be one way to ensure that everyone gets to keep their precious /kill and doesn’t have to worry about running out of nades. Plus, it would give ample time for you to finish off an opponent.

Another option is increasing reinforcement time. Since you decided to suicide maybe you should be granted the pleasure of staying dead a little longer than someone that fought to the death?

Yet another option is reducing battle sense to 0 (you can keep your XP, but you won’t reap its benefits). Even giving less health and ammo after a suicide is an option.

The idea is: If you make a misjudgment you should pay the price for it.

[Awol]

Frankly I can’t believe the biggest complaint on /kill is that they are denied their XP for killing someone. I can’t see how that 2XP or whatever low number is really going to make a different. Do you complain when you died, I mean you lost out on that XP as well. Or if someone TKs you man that must piss you off cause they prevented you from getting XP as well. OOHH better yet TK/Revive man that must really piss you off you lost XP and then you came back to life shortly afterwards.

You all only want /kill nerfed, removes just because some jerk took some small amount of XP away from you in a GAME. If you want XP so badly play D&D you get lots of XP for everything you kill and there isn’t a /kill command.