Please fix Client to Client Accuracy aswell as Deathcam!


(B_Montiel) #81

[quote=“Amerika;48809”][quote=“B. Montiel;48763”]
@Amerika, my knowledge on UE3 is totally empirical. With my chivalry team, we administrated one server for scrims/tourneys and occasional pub games for 2 years. We had the opportunity to tweak the server quite deeply (ty simrai), and all the EU teams interested in server tweaking ended into the same conclusions, with some even renting the said 100 tickrate servers. This game had the same client side detection system and 100 tickrate made an incredible difference, and I’m not over-rating it. Hit windows (Melee draggable attacks) were fitting the models and anims in a way closer fashion. [/quote]

But the antilag in DB is a layer. There is the network connection layer and then there is the predictive layer. Not every game has the latter or uses the same technology. It didn’t come necessarily with UE3 according to what I found. There were multiple solutions that could be employed and are employed against a broad range of games. FPS games, fighting games and even platformers all can use something different. Just because you played Chivalry doesn’t mean it’s the same thing that DB uses. That’s why I was asking you to cite what you know to be a fact about Dirty Bomb.

Also, I could see melee playing out a lot different. With no/little anti-lag you’d need to predict where people were going to be even at decent pings. So animations wouldn’t match. With the antilag, since you’re so close and you’d constantly be predicting where people are and how they are swinging, if there was any error correction you’d know it. Where in an FPS when you’re being shot you’d only maybe notice it when going around a corner. If you died in the open you’d be totally fine with it.

So I could see antilag being annoying in a melee game at times…but is it worse than having to predict where people are at if it’s toned down a lot or removed? Even after basically showing proof of what happens in DB when the antilag goes wrong, which doesn’t appear at first glance to do any favors for DB, I still don’t see the issue. Because I either would have died anyway or the game would have been laggy enough that I would have lived…and then we all are playing a laggy game.[/quote]

I know for a fact that tickrate is set below 66 and you don’t warp at a 180 ping (experienced this on a East NA server, you don’t warp but that’s unplayable still). Except that, CQB situations create what is from my point of view very similar and rather irrational issues than chivalry’s melee did, in a way stronger manner. And chivalry used more or less the same layers dirty bomb use, except that you were starting to warp around 100 ms, which is probably too narrow. That’s the only things I know about it. But not warping at 180 is a strong clue of anti-lag uselessly set to high. I’m sorry but in a fast fps 180 ms is a considerable amount of time and I’m pretty staggered they’re actually trying to reduce the effect of this. Once again, don’t get me wrong, the game has a pretty neat netcode but it could be improved nicely to match some recent productions like cs:go by simply being slightly more strict about potential ping limits and anti-lag.

[quote=“RuleofBooKz;48864”]what @B. Montiel is putting into words about when to run and when to gun and how this game seems sluggish and a little sloppy is my experience also
[/quote]

I’ve been thinking about it during the day. In my mind, this somehow creates a weird balance issue between light/medium/heavy classes. We can consider that, on average, main automatic weapons have a 130 dps on exclusive bodyshot (cf. weapon spreadsheet). I plant a scenario : you run away when your life is equal or below a third of your total health pool. If we consider the incertitude period due to anti-lag being 0.2s, the potential damage you can receive from bodyshot during that period is 26(on average once again). Which is almost a third of 80 and 90 hp mercs (you’re pretty much dead with sparks and aura), while 110hp mercs and above still have a good 10 hp remaining, which is enough to heal further away. Thus making the behind cover hits more noticeable with light mercs and making them further unreliable than they already are. Toning anti-lag down would narrow this problem by reducing the potential damage during the incertitude period.


(RuleofBooKz) #82

i like it. trim down the fat - like how light mecs have less HP - and there is less room to move within the framework of the uncertain period and so u end up getting killed. And lets face it when u get killed u tend to notice things. If ur a big merc wit ha bunch of HP another hit here or there isnt that big a deal a little longer to heal perhaps and so it isn’t that noticeable.

But one thing? lets call “running away” um “ducking back into cover” or “tactical withdrawal”

yeah. Thats what us light mercs are doing: ducking back into cover during a tactical withdrawal. We are most certainly not “running away” :wink:


(Amerika) #83

[quote=“B. Montiel;48914”][quote=“Amerika;48809”][quote=“B. Montiel;48763”]
@Amerika, my knowledge on UE3 is totally empirical. With my chivalry team, we administrated one server for scrims/tourneys and occasional pub games for 2 years. We had the opportunity to tweak the server quite deeply (ty simrai), and all the EU teams interested in server tweaking ended into the same conclusions, with some even renting the said 100 tickrate servers. This game had the same client side detection system and 100 tickrate made an incredible difference, and I’m not over-rating it. Hit windows (Melee draggable attacks) were fitting the models and anims in a way closer fashion. [/quote]

But the antilag in DB is a layer. There is the network connection layer and then there is the predictive layer. Not every game has the latter or uses the same technology. It didn’t come necessarily with UE3 according to what I found. There were multiple solutions that could be employed and are employed against a broad range of games. FPS games, fighting games and even platformers all can use something different. Just because you played Chivalry doesn’t mean it’s the same thing that DB uses. That’s why I was asking you to cite what you know to be a fact about Dirty Bomb.

Also, I could see melee playing out a lot different. With no/little anti-lag you’d need to predict where people were going to be even at decent pings. So animations wouldn’t match. With the antilag, since you’re so close and you’d constantly be predicting where people are and how they are swinging, if there was any error correction you’d know it. Where in an FPS when you’re being shot you’d only maybe notice it when going around a corner. If you died in the open you’d be totally fine with it.

So I could see antilag being annoying in a melee game at times…but is it worse than having to predict where people are at if it’s toned down a lot or removed? Even after basically showing proof of what happens in DB when the antilag goes wrong, which doesn’t appear at first glance to do any favors for DB, I still don’t see the issue. Because I either would have died anyway or the game would have been laggy enough that I would have lived…and then we all are playing a laggy game.[/quote]

I know for a fact that tickrate is set below 66 and you don’t warp at a 180 ping (experienced this on a East NA server, you don’t warp but that’s unplayable still). Except that, CQB situations create what is from my point of view very similar and rather irrational issues than chivalry’s melee did, in a way stronger manner. And chivalry used more or less the same layers dirty bomb use, except that you were starting to warp around 100 ms, which is probably too narrow. That’s the only things I know about it. But not warping at 180 is a strong clue of anti-lag uselessly set to high. I’m sorry but in a fast fps 180 ms is a considerable amount of time and I’m pretty staggered they’re actually trying to reduce the effect of this. Once again, don’t get me wrong, the game has a pretty neat netcode but it could be improved nicely to match some recent productions like cs:go by simply being slightly more strict about potential ping limits and anti-lag.

[quote=“RuleofBooKz;48864”]what @B. Montiel is putting into words about when to run and when to gun and how this game seems sluggish and a little sloppy is my experience also
[/quote]

I’ve been thinking about it during the day. In my mind, this somehow creates a weird balance issue between light/medium/heavy classes. We can consider that, on average, main automatic weapons have a 130 dps on exclusive bodyshot (cf. weapon spreadsheet). I plant a scenario : you run away when your life is equal or below a third of your total health pool. If we consider the incertitude period due to anti-lag being 0.2s, the potential damage you can receive from bodyshot during that period is 26(on average once again). Which is almost a third of 80 and 90 hp mercs (you’re pretty much dead with sparks and aura), while 110hp mercs and above still have a good 10 hp remaining, which is enough to heal further away. Thus making the behind cover hits more noticeable with light mercs and making them further unreliable than they already are. Toning anti-lag down would narrow this problem by reducing the potential damage during the incertitude period.[/quote]

Could you please cite where you got your information from. I am not one for guesswork. Theories are all good…but passing them off as fact doesn’t fly with me. Especially when we’re talking about locking people out of playing where everything is normally fine. And only so you don’t end up with a death looking weird even though you would have died with antilag on or off.


(B_Montiel) #84

The only assumption in my last hypothesis is the 0.2s incertitude period, which has to be regarded from the client who is receiving damage point of view. As far as I know, I’m not over-rating it. That’s an average correction provided by servers (client to client, this makes roughly 0.2s with the server calculation in between). The rest is just maths. I’m not trying to make anyone agree with my hypothesis. I’m just trying to expose through maths why we do have different perspective and feeling upon netcode issues. Just prove me I’m wrong and I will erase all of that. And my hypothesis has a strong impact on the game perspective. I’m sorry, but if the damage received during those gaps were lower OR more easy to handle in a reliable way, that would increase chances of survival.

There’s so many things to be discussed here since SD is not very talkative about such subjects, even on their forums…


(Amerika) #85

You are assuming about the anti-lag tech in use, it’s settings, that things will get better if it’s tightened instead of worse for more people using anything that is real world proof. If you have math, show it. If you have tech articles concerning UE3, DB or the other games you’re talking about then link them. Again, there is a place and time for theories but when you are calling to make the game worse for a lot of people then you need to show valid proof of some form.

If my own experiences matched your own I’d be supportive of your theories but since they are pretty much entirely opposite I can’t.


(Ghosthree3) #86

[quote=“Amerika;48874”]I have Shadowplay set to always record the last 20 minutes I played. If something good happens during that time I hit alt + f10 and it dumps my gameplay to a video file. Since my card is built for it (any card that is a gtx650 and up I believe is) there is no additional stress put on it while playing a game and since I have the temp file being stored to a non-OS drive and along with being dumped to that drive there is zero impact on gameplay even when I hit alt F10.

Setting it to 5 minutes would make it a lot easier to get clips for highlights but I like sometimes having whole rounds captured as I am more a fan of raw gameplay footage as opposed to highlight reels.[/quote]
Yeah I figured. Unfortunately my media player uses exclusive fullscreen which shadowplay treats as a game and starts non stop recording it while it plays so if I forget to turn it off I could end up with some serious HDD rape.


(RuleofBooKz) #87

here is an idea - next patch tighten things and listen to feedback from these here forums - is it better or worse? I think it will be better. If it isnt better than just switch it back. No harm done.

Now is the time to be doing this as its beta and people expect things to be a little back and forth while we get just the right settings to go actual on.

sometimes the only way to get solid “proof” is to run the experiment - theory only gets u so far


(B_Montiel) #88

[quote=“Amerika;48981”]You are assuming about the anti-lag tech in use, it’s settings, that things will get better if it’s tightened instead of worse for more people using anything that is real world proof. If you have math, show it. If you have tech articles concerning UE3, DB or the other games you’re talking about then link them. Again, there is a place and time for theories but when you are calling to make the game worse for a lot of people then you need to show valid proof of some form.

If my own experiences matched your own I’d be supportive of your theories but since they are pretty much entirely opposite I can’t.[/quote]

I already told you my knowledge of UE3 games is only empirical. I don’t have the time nor the the pure computer knowledge to understand any deep analysis of those systems. BUT that does not mean it can be neglected in block like you are doing either way. Are you just trolling me or you are still believing that the sun rotates around the earth ?

The starting of this interesting thread was a totally legitimate question. Are intercontinental games necessary for this game ? All your defence is also assuming this fact as granted. You are the moderator here, you should have more levers than I do to ask this to the devs.


(misspo) #89

There’s so many things to be discussed here since SD is not very talkative about such subjects, even on their forums…because they are all here http://forums.warchest.com/forum.php, on a non official forum


(B_Montiel) #90

Yup, including this one.