Please, DON'T NERF Phantom again...

(Geno2222) #1

The new update is awesome, i played him for like 150h before the “Rework” and the new one is amaznig. Some people can say “He is too good” BUT HE IS NOT. After some match against him, you get “used” to the new cloack ad you can see him pretty easly, he also has lot’s of counter play: Vassili,REDEYE,Aimee, Every merc with a shotgun, High HP mercs. Once you miss you katana Swing or some shot of your weapon you’re dead, cuz you usually are behind the enemy and your team can’t help you. Phantom can do one thing to help the team, and is Killing the enemy. For once after like 1 year he is good, pls don’t kill him again.

(doxjq) #2

(blufflord) #3

I’d say wait a week, and then consider adding a 1-2 second delay from when he finishes uncloaking to when he can click LMB, and see how that turns out. Just whatever you do, nothing drastic please.

(Eox) #4

No matter what you say, if your merc ruins everyone’s fun, has almost no counterplay but a single merc and spreads faster than a rat colony in Paris’ sewers, you need to get nerfed.

This said, there’s a clear way to nerf him without ruining him. It’s just not allowing him to attack right off the bat while cloaked (you’re going to need 1s to uncloak before attacking). It doesn’t ruin Phantom, requires him to plan his actions, and it’s enough to ensure a little bit of counterplay for everyone.

(watsyurdeal) #5

@Eox said:
No matter what you say, if your merc ruins everyone’s fun, has almost no counterplay but a single merc and spreads faster than a rat colony in Paris’ sewers, you need to get nerfed.

This said, there’s a clear way to nerf him without ruining him. It’s just not allowing him to attack right off the bat while cloaked (you’re going to need 1s to uncloak before attacking). It doesn’t ruin Phantom, requires him to plan his actions, and it’s enough to ensure a little bit of counterplay for everyone.

1 whole second is long in a game like Dirty Bomb, half a second would be more than enough.

(Geno2222) #6

He does not ruin players fun, a lot of merc can 1shot withuot giving you time to react.
A good fragger nade, a nader spam nade, a sniper accross the map incuding sparks, mines and finally the new merc hunter.
But wait a sec, have you noticed that every merc mentioned don’t need to get NEAR the enemy, the can just fire from the distance. So ore we gonna nerf half of the “merc pull” becose they can oneshot? LUL

(Eox) #7

@watsyurdeal said:

@Eox said:
No matter what you say, if your merc ruins everyone’s fun, has almost no counterplay but a single merc and spreads faster than a rat colony in Paris’ sewers, you need to get nerfed.

This said, there’s a clear way to nerf him without ruining him. It’s just not allowing him to attack right off the bat while cloaked (you’re going to need 1s to uncloak before attacking). It doesn’t ruin Phantom, requires him to plan his actions, and it’s enough to ensure a little bit of counterplay for everyone.

1 whole second is long in a game like Dirty Bomb, half a second would be more than enough.

And half a second feels way too short.

The main goal of that change is to make it so Phantom has to uncloack further from his target instead of right behind them. That delay is high to require Phantom to plan his action. His current invisibility level allows him to relocate himself with great ease, so it need a potent enough delay so he is not tempted to directly uncloack behind someone do get a 90 damage head start.

@Geno2222 said:
He does not ruin players fun, a lot of merc can 1shot withuot giving you time to react.
A good fragger nade, a nader spam nade, a sniper accross the map incuding sparks, mines and finally the new merc hunter.
But wait a sec, have you noticed that every merc mentioned don’t need to get NEAR the enemy, the can just fire from the distance. So ore we gonna nerf half of the “merc pull” becose they can oneshot? LUL

Fragger’s grenades can be predicted due to their 2-3s cooking. Nader’s nades have a long enough delay to allow you to get out of the area (unless it’s a direct nade, in that case she deserved that kill). Mines are countered by awareness in a much easier way than Phantomù’s invisibility due to their predictable positionning (it’s on the floor) and the sound they make. As for snipers, they’re another issue that needs to be dealt with, but popping heads takes more skills than charging at people with a melee weapon while invisible.

(Mc1412013) #8

Every one is playing him now cuz his rework let the dust settle and people get bored of him and go back to there main mercs then buff/nerf him.

(Da_Mummy) #9

@Geno2222 said:
He does not ruin players fun, a lot of merc can 1shot withuot giving you time to react.
But wait a sec, have you noticed that every merc mentioned don’t need to get NEAR the enemy, the can just fire from the distance. So ore we gonna nerf half of the “merc pull” becose the can oneshot? LUL

Actually no merc except Phantom has a cloak and if you think that just because a fragger stopped shooting for 2 seconds, you push after him and die because he shoved a pineapple down your throat, does not mean he is a long range one hit kill merc.
Oh and you haven’t noticed Phantom has a gun… you know those things that you can shoot people with… from long range.

A good fragger nade

Explained already

a nader spam nade

Well if you don’t run from 4 grenades and then wonder why the 5th one hit you in the face…

a sniper accross the map

Requires aim, time, ammo, positioning, map knowledge, reaction times… you get the idea
And sparks isn’t a sniper.

mines

Uhm… looking down
So what is your point.

(TheStrangerous) #10

@Eox said:

1 whole second is long in a game like Dirty Bomb, half a second would be more than enough.

And half a second feels way too short.

Then 3 quarters or 2 thirds is the golden middle! :slight_smile:

(Eox) #11

@TheStrangerous said:

@Eox said:

1 whole second is long in a game like Dirty Bomb, half a second would be more than enough.

And half a second feels way too short.

Then 3 quarters or 2 thirds is the golden middle! :slight_smile:

0.8s is the lower I would go so far. But not without trying 1s first.

(l2c) #12

@Eox said:
Fragger’s grenades can be predicted due to their 2-3s cooking.
Yeah, that Fragger that is behind corners and walls etc cooking his nades that you get in your face while comming out of spawn, totally predictable. New Fraggers can be predicted. Good Fraggers just blow you up out of nowhere.

(ClemClem7) #13

@Geno2222 said:
a sniper accross the map incuding sparks

incuding sparks

Sparks across the map can’t one shot anymore. And has charge delay, and has overheat on her weapon, and had a travel time (not that much but still). I can’t see how you compare her to a sniper…

(binderr) #14

@Eox said:
No matter what you say, if your merc ruins everyone’s fun, has almost no counterplay but a single merc and spreads faster than a rat colony in Paris’ sewers, you need to get nerfed.

This said, there’s a clear way to nerf him without ruining him. It’s just not allowing him to attack right off the bat while cloaked (you’re going to need 1s to uncloak before attacking). It doesn’t ruin Phantom, requires him to plan his actions, and it’s enough to ensure a little bit of counterplay for everyone.

Its a complete nuisance in CMM games right now, you see him, can’t be spotted, you shoot at him, won’t decloak. not to mention his almost invisible now, barely visible so its not easy to him see either, though his sound does give it away only.

I can’t fathom how devs didnt now allow phantom to decloak if shot at, makes no fucking sense. every game is now full of phantoms just playing death match!

Honestly thought i’de enjoy this update but SD has done it again.

(watsyurdeal) #15

@Eox said:

@TheStrangerous said:

@Eox said:

1 whole second is long in a game like Dirty Bomb, half a second would be more than enough.

And half a second feels way too short.

Then 3 quarters or 2 thirds is the golden middle! :slight_smile:

0.8s is the lower I would go so far. But not without trying 1s first.

There is no reason for it to be that long

The decloak time in TF2 was fine because the average ttk was roughly 1 second to at best, 3/4 of a second if the player was invite level in terms of aim.

The average ttk of most guns in this game is about 0.25 seconds for headshots, about 0.66 seconds for bodyshots. The cloak delay should be comparable to this and strike a good sweet spot, 1 whole second is enough to be killed TWICE, that is way too long, it needs to be about 0.5 seconds to 0.66 seconds, considering the average reaction time of players here is about 0.25 seconds plus 0.055 for ping differences, so about 0.305 seconds, half a second is more than enough time to react and get first shot on Phantom, and scales based on player accuracy, reaction time, and how distracted they are, which is entirely depedent on your team.

For evidence refer to the Dirty Bomb ttk sheet and this thread: http://forums.dirtybomb.com/discussion/24086/so-three-questions-id-like-to-ask-you-all/p1

And if I don’t reply, it’s cause I am busy at work.

(kopyright) #16

@Eox said:
Fragger’s grenades can be predicted due to their 2-3s cooking.

Not much of a help when he throws them into your spawn exit from around corners. Try dodging a frag nade when rushing up the stairs on Underground.

(Eox) #17

@kopyright said:

@Eox said:
Fragger’s grenades can be predicted due to their 2-3s cooking.

Not much of a help when he throws them into your spawn exit from around corners. Try dodging a frag nade when rushing up the stairs on Underground.

Another issue, and a terrible one I have to admit. But Underground is basically spawnkill heaven as well.

(Muddy Muddy Mud Nade) #18

Getting a serious sense of deja vu right now.

(TheStrangerous) #19

@MuddyGrenade said:
Getting a serious sense of deja vu right now.

Get used to it, they’ll nerf him hard 'til 2020 rework.
And every 2,5 years they’ll “rework him”. Again and again… AND AGAIN… AND AGAAAAIN… more than Spiderman reboots.

(Eox) #20

@MuddyGrenade said:
Getting a serious sense of deja vu right now.

You’re not the only one, don’t worry.

@TheStrangerous said:

@MuddyGrenade said:
Getting a serious sense of deja vu right now.

Get used to it, they’ll nerf him hard 'til 2020 rework.
And every 2,5 years they’ll “rework him”. Again and again… AND AGAIN… AND AGAAAAIN… more than Spiderman reboots.

We have an obvious way to do a proper Phantom nerf without totally ruining the merc. At the very least I doubt the ones I suggested are going to put Phantom back to “trash tier”. We just have to hope that SD takes action with a proper solution.