So my pc is pretty bad as is so it could be a frame dip but how much does ping make a difference in a fight. ive been in normal matches and hit targets and needed to be darn close to melee. in say an enemy hitting 150 up to 300 ping i really need to aim a head and i can melee almost two in game people from people… plus at that level snap shots are so common it drives me nuts. but ya either way id love to know what i can do since in live on the west coast of the USA and fighting Russian and Chinese and who knows what else at 200+ ping is a pain?
ping play efficiency ?
BananaSlug
(BananaSlug)
#2
with high ping you can react properly, before you see what is happening on screen and before you react there is new stuff see and react
Wolf_Darkrose
(Wolf_Darkrose)
#3
well i might be wrong but ping does effect snipers big time … i cant tell you how many times ive been shot clear around a corner and shot others and when you see that final shot mark and it goes straight through a solid wall or pillar it pisses me off to no end
Pyjama_Slam
(Pyjama_Slam)
#4
I have no idea how thing work here,. but in games like CSGO hitscan works not only server sided but also from your own pc. The visual part is rendered on your end (blood splatters, and hit sounds). But the damage is detected by the server. The delay (Ping) between the pc and the server is what makes things odd.
You can shoot someone, see blood and hit marker, but no damage is done. It also works the other way around. You got hit by an enemy, but only after you ran behind a wall the damage is done.
Runeforce1
(Runeforce)
#5
Dirty Bomb uses client side hit detection, which means the server responds to ‘how you do on your screen,’ instead of lobsided favouring the clients closest to the server.
Ohsnapkline
(Ohsnapkline)
#6
depends it can also go either way, if you have a good stable connection but play in far regions with high ping I’ve had cases where the high ping makes you a god because of lag compensation. it’s hit or miss but I’ve gone into EU servers and felt like a troll and watch as hardly any shots registering on me.
Video is a bit of an extreme example but this does on occasion happen where they see you on their screen and the lag compensation gives them the shot as the servers are trying to register what happened client side.
Overwatch is WAY WORSE with 20 tick servers and a cheesy favor the shooter client/server prediction (basicly most skirms the victor is decided artificially). it’s so bad people still say unless its tournaments with custom games capped at 60 tick Overwatch has no business having a competitive mode.
Nibbles02
(Nibbles02)
#7
From what I’ve seen it depends on your actual connection. If you have a good connection(15+mb/s) but are on the other side of the world, the ping gives you a severe advantage. If your connection speed is just slow, then rubberbanding will occur and it’ll put you at a disadvantage.
I’ve seen high-level players from Russia and the EU playing on US servers with 300-700 ping and winning every firefight, even when people got away(snipers and heavies are by far the worst when it comes to the lag advantage), but I’ve also seen players with 100-200 ping rubberband and do really poorly because they can’t hit anyone.
Runeforce1
(Runeforce)
#8
No. Less lag always gives a better advantage. But high pingers can become disruptive to the information flow, thus tolerance levels has to be engineered.
Nibbles02
(Nibbles02)
#9
No, less lag makes the game more responsive and playable, and there’s little difference between 10 ping and 80 ping, but with client-side hit detection, as you literally pointed out, players who lag will always have their damage register even if the enemy is already behind a wall on their side, as can be seen in the example posted by @Ohsnapkline.
Runeforce1
(Runeforce)
#10
So if I were sitting on Mars, you’d get registred after running through half the map? 
Mister_Wiggles
(Mister__Wiggles)
#11
I’ve found that high ping players do get favoured, if they strafe and shoot as well then it’s incredibly difficult to win a fight.
teflonlove
(Teflon Love)
#12
Some of my favorite screenshots to illustrate the powers of client side hit detection (my ping is usually between 30 and 50):
DarkMatterMatt
(DarkMatterMatt)
#13
I really really want a max 250 ping limit. I live in NZ and get 30ish on AUS servers and 150ish on West US servers. A 250 limit would allow almost everyone to play on the servers closest to them (and not let people play with those on the opposite side of the world)
Wolf_Darkrose
(Wolf_Darkrose)
#14
[quote=“teflonlove;196885”]Some of my favorite screenshots to illustrate the powers of client side hit detection (my ping is usually between 30 and 50):
OMG THE HATE when i get those late at night on the USA servers IS SO EVIL
Amerika
(Amerika)
#15
Dirty Bomb uses client side hit detection, which means the server responds to ‘how you do on your screen,’ instead of lobsided favouring the clients closest to the server.[/quote]
This is something that I seen thrown around a lot and it’s not entirely accurate. Virtually every modern game since Q3 OSP (and probably before that…but it’s when it became common/popular) has client-side hit detection. The difference is that it’s dialed up in some games and dialed way back in others.
I wrote up a mini-history and explanation for anybody interested below. This is also a common topic in fighting games as well which I was heavily involved with in the past.
[Spoiler]Client-side hit detection has been around for a very long time. The first time I remember hearing of it was Quake 3 OSP pro mod that added in client side prediction which allowed players that were above a 30 ping (up to about 70 ping) to play mostly like normal. It still favored lower ping players but not by much. A lot of future iDtech games and then other games used this same method to help lower the ping barrier for players and expand the geographic range where people could compete (which created much more stable online communities).
Fast forward a few years. Virtually every single game relies heavily on client-side hit detection as opposed to server latency based hit detection. OSP made it so people with a 70 ping could compete against players, somewhat, with a 20 ping and keep play consistent for those players. Same can be said for CS:S.
Now games rely on it even more since it’s less intensive on hardware to handle all the calculations and the tech has gotten better. Which is why you see teams in games like DB that have 130 ping players doing just fine. It’s not without its hitches but for the most part it works fine and it, again, keeps games alive because it allows players from geographically huge distances to play together.
Server side netcode, which is what it is commonly referred to, is actually just latency based netcode. What happens is if your game is entirely server side netcode then your movement and shots are all entirely based on your current ping. So if you have a 10 ping things will be smooth and you won’t have to lead. But if you start getting into the higher pings like 50+ you will start needing to lead all your shots by that 50ms. So if somebody is ADAD strafing it can be rough to track them if the game has fast movement (hello lightning gun). If your ping rubberbands and you constantly go from 30ms to 90ms you will never have a consistent lead on targets. You just sort of have to click and hope. Also, you might start warping somewhat on your own screen and on theirs.
Then there is client-side. Client side is a predictive tech that uses very tiny windows of time to calculate your position and that of everything you’re doing, send it to the server, the server checks the other clients connected and then comes up with what it believes it he most accurate result. You can dial this up and down quite a bit. See Q3 OSP for the dialed down example and Loadout as the over the top example.
So virtually all modern games has some form of client-side hit detection. How much a game relies on it is entirely up to the developer. It can be tuned per weapon even.[/spoiler]
blonk
(blonk)
#16
Dirty Bomb uses client side hit detection, which means the server responds to ‘how you do on your screen,’ instead of lobsided favouring the clients closest to the server.[/quote]
This is something that I seen thrown around a lot and it’s not entirely accurate. Virtually every modern game since Q3 OSP (and probably before that…but it’s when it became common/popular) has client-side hit detection. The difference is that it’s dialed up in some games and dialed way back in others.
I wrote up a mini-history and explanation for anybody interested below. This is also a common topic in fighting games as well which I was heavily involved with in the past.
[/quote]
I think it’s fair to say that compared to CS:S as that history notes, DB gives the client a lot more authority to determine if a hit was successful or not. Probably to the point that it is the authority of the hit being successful or not. There’s videos of people playing DB, intentionally introducing a dropped connection or extreme packet loss and managing to floor multiple people because of the chasm of time they had to click on everyone’s head (though admittedly this was with other cheats running as well). That doesn’t happen the same in CS:S, or at least I’ve certainly never seen it happen anywhere like it does in DB. Instead you get frustrating splotches of blood on enemy heads but no actual damage done, because the server does not agree with your client that your hit was successful.
Wolf_Darkrose
(Wolf_Darkrose)
#17
its odd too 90% of those shoots around corner are headshots… so many the system takes longer in most cases to register headshots ??.. aka to test for cheating
Amerika
(Amerika)
#18
Dirty Bomb uses client side hit detection, which means the server responds to ‘how you do on your screen,’ instead of lobsided favouring the clients closest to the server.[/quote]
This is something that I seen thrown around a lot and it’s not entirely accurate. Virtually every modern game since Q3 OSP (and probably before that…but it’s when it became common/popular) has client-side hit detection. The difference is that it’s dialed up in some games and dialed way back in others.
I wrote up a mini-history and explanation for anybody interested below. This is also a common topic in fighting games as well which I was heavily involved with in the past.
[/quote]
I think it’s fair to say that compared to CS:S as that history notes, DB gives the client a lot more authority to determine if a hit was successful or not. Probably to the point that it is the authority of the hit being successful or not. There’s videos of people playing DB, intentionally introducing a dropped connection or extreme packet loss and managing to floor multiple people because of the chasm of time they had to click on everyone’s head (though admittedly this was with other cheats running as well). That doesn’t happen the same in CS:S, or at least I’ve certainly never seen it happen anywhere like it does in DB. Instead you get frustrating splotches of blood on enemy heads but no actual damage done, because the server does not agree with your client that your hit was successful.[/quote]
You can introduce lag via programs commonly referred to as “lag switches” in any game with any connection type. It’s super common for people to use on reloads or in fighting games if they are getting comboed. However, I get what you’re saying. With games that are more delay based (server side) if a person drops packets and lags out for a short while you can shoot their character as it sits in space trying to run but is stuck. With more client heavy systems that person is going to warp and be harder to track because the server is trying to predict where they should be. So they might be stuck moving left for a while but they are still going left. Then when the server finally gets an update suddenly they aren’t there anymore and are actually a few feet away. That’s a downside to client side heavy implementations as it makes easy kills from people with bad connections less easy and can sometimes end up being pretty upsetting. Also, back to lag switches, you’d only introduce minor lag to make you consistently chop during a reload while in games that rely more no ping than client side prediction. So it’s effective in both scenarios with slightly different implementations.
CS:S uses client side hit detection…it just doesn’t rely on it as much as DB and especially not Loadout. Partly it was because client side hit detection, at the time, was still newish tech and it was also “expensive” in regards to computing power on both the client and the server side. And due to the large population of the CS playerbase Valve has never had to go in heavy on client side prediction because there are typically plenty of players with lower pings to easily play each other. That isn’t true for a lot of games though. Of course Overwatch relies HEAVILY on client-side as well.
It’s a complicated subject that is fun discussing as the tech is fascinating and the reasons for using one method over another is also an interesting topic since each has pros and cons.
Yoma1
(Yoma)
#19
Well, it does annoy me when i walk around the corner fleeing from an enemy and get killed nearly 1-2 seconds after running around that very corner. I have a ping of 15-35 on EU servers and normally these epic people have one of 200+.
I already played aswell on ASIA server with a ping of 330+ and damage done was delayed quite hard but somehow the enemies couldnt get a hit on myself at all while everything went smooth without freezes for me. (The damage simply was delayed by a good 1-2 seconds)
So high ping does gives you some kind of advantage to me.