Phoenix vs Sawbones

(derpyMoonMoon) #1

I know this has been brought up before, but since the recent Phoenix buff, I wanted to see what all of you think.

I love to play Saw, but with his medpacks giving him a heal that’s about as fast as the regular health regen, he isn’t as viable of a front line medic. Increasing Phoenix’s heal from 80 to 100 really helped me enjoy him more, letting him more than just top off someones health at full charge.

I also seem to help my team a lot more as Sawbones, but get more xp as Phoenix. Can someone explain that bit?

(watsyurdeal) #2

Sawbonez is better at healing others, Phoneix is better at healing himself to be honest, and healing small groups.

I think they both have a specific place and I see both pretty frequently.

That said, I think if I had to pick I’d pick Sawbonez, he has a little more health, smg 9, and his health packs can be tossed a decent distance.

(XavienX) #3

The thing with Sawbonez is that his healing can get canceled when the players get shot and has a penalty for self-heal. However he can leave multiple medpacks for others to use later and run off to another place to help unlike Phoenix. Phoenix can’t help others heal with multiple packs like Sawbonez if he’s on cooldown and often at times can miss an opportunity however he does an instant heal and doesn’t have self-penalty.
But I think Sawbonez is more viable for competitive play because you can use more smart tactics as long as you’re evasive when under attack.

(n-x) #4

Additional, since the update Phoenix’ cooldown for the healing pulse is bugged. It’s 20 seconds instead of 12 for a full charge. So there is no real testing atm, how the buff affects Phoenix. Right now, he is actually kind of nerfed compared to pre patch.

(derpyMoonMoon) #5

Really? I haven’t noticed, I’ll have to check it out. Full charge like full circle/heal, or full as in the full cooldown?

(n-x) #6

Holding the charge as long as possible will give you 20 seconds cool down. What I havent tested yet is, if you already heal 100HP for 12 seconds cool down and if seconds 13 till 20 are just kind of an excess time, like they “locked” the cool down at the wrong point. Or if you heal for 19 seconds worth of cool down, you dont actually heal the full 100 HP.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160222/temp/x6jo2t69.jpg

(derpyMoonMoon) #7

I just tested it with the 20% cooldown reduction (only card I have other than the icky default) and the times were 12/18 for full charge and full cooldown respectively. Is that not how it’s supposed to be? It works perfectly fine for me.

Is the card that you’re using one of the ones with that perk? Also yes, I’ve tested it, full heal is at full circle and the rest is simply added cooldown time.

(n-x) #8

Ok, maybe I got this wrong. I was always under the impression, that you could get 12 seconds cool down max. Even if you hold the charge longer then necessary.

Was it always like: For a full heal (earlier 80/now 100 hp) you get 12 seconds cool down. And if you charge longer until the automatical discharge you get 20 seconds cool down without any additional benefit?

(JJMAJR) #9

With Phoenix you always get a good build, guaranteed. Sawbonez only has two to three: the Crotzni builds.

Phoenix means less grinding time. I thought you might like that as a new player.

(Amerika) #10

[quote=“Kelben;152006”]Holding the charge as long as possible will give you 20 seconds cool down. What I havent tested yet is, if you already heal 100HP for 12 seconds cool down and if seconds 13 till 20 are just kind of an excess time, like they “locked” the cool down at the wrong point. Or if you heal for 19 seconds worth of cool down, you dont actually heal the full 100 HP.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160222/temp/x6jo2t69.jpg[/quote]

Holding the charge and getting a longer CD but not a bigger heal is by design. It’s to help deter players from running around with a full charge at the ready. If you choose to do so you’re going to incur a bigger penalty. It makes sense but I don’t know how big of an issue it actually is.

Sawbonez IMO gets the edge simply because he can keep a whole team up pretty well and he has a bit extra HP to survive. Phoenix is great but he’s only really good on very quick pushes where a burst heal might win a fight. He’s also good in positions where he can die but then use his self-revive to get back up without the chance of a gib too.

Honestly, I think all 4 medics have their place and are good.

(derpyMoonMoon) #11

It was always like that yes. If you hold it to full charge, it forces you to release it. There’s no benefit past full circle apart from a longer cooldown, that’s why it doesn’t let you hold it forever.

Also my favorite Sawbones card is the SM71. I prefer the SMG-9 honestly, and even then it has both get up and extra supplies, the two perks that work the best with him. The heal is already really fast (faster than Aura I believe) and I’d rather to be able to put out more packs than a slightly faster heal rate to something that’s already fast.

As for Phoenix, I used to use the KE81 since it’s the only one with two support oriented augments, but since I got the Humble Bundle pack, I’ve really enjoyed the CR72, since it has both support and utility/offense augments.

I think that Sawbones is more of a team player. Giving the weak full health and still being able to push with his health and good weapons really give Saw a great competitive edge. However, Phoenix seems to be more of a carry medic. He can top off the slightly injured, still can heal himself quite well, and can revive himself when there’s no other medics around. So, for me, Phoenix for pug’s, Sawbones for competitive or when I can rely on my team. What do you all think of that opinion? Feel free to completely tear it apart.

(n-x) #12

[quote=“Amerika;152022”][quote=“Kelben;152006”]Holding the charge as long as possible will give you 20 seconds cool down. What I havent tested yet is, if you already heal 100HP for 12 seconds cool down and if seconds 13 till 20 are just kind of an excess time, like they “locked” the cool down at the wrong point. Or if you heal for 19 seconds worth of cool down, you dont actually heal the full 100 HP.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160222/temp/x6jo2t69.jpg[/quote]

Holding the charge and getting a longer CD but not a bigger heal is by design. It’s to help deter players from running around with a full charge at the ready. If you choose to do so you’re going to incur a bigger penalty. It makes sense but I don’t know how big of an issue it actually is.

Sawbonez IMO gets the edge simply because he can keep a whole team up pretty well and he has a bit extra HP to survive. Phoenix is great but he’s only really good on very quick pushes where a burst heal might win a fight. He’s also good in positions where he can die but then use his self-revive to get back up without the chance of a gib too.

Honestly, I think all 4 medics have their place and are good.[/quote]

Thanks a lot. I noticed the 20 seconds cool down the first time after the patch and thought it is a bug, that sneaked in, with the change from 80 to 100 hp. You think I should have noticed it earlier with my 75 hours play time on Phoenix…

(n-x) #13

[quote=“goodDeposit;152024”]It was always like that yes. If you hold it to full charge, it forces you to release it. There’s no benefit past full circle apart from a longer cooldown, that’s why it doesn’t let you hold it forever.

Also my favorite Sawbones card is the SM71. I prefer the SMG-9 honestly, and even then it has both get up and extra supplies, the two perks that work the best with him. The heal is already really fast (faster than Aura I believe) and I’d rather to be able to put out more packs than a slightly faster heal rate to something that’s already fast.

As for Phoenix, I used to use the KE81 since it’s the only one with two support oriented augments, but since I got the Humble Bundle pack, I’ve really enjoyed the CR72, since it has both support and utility/offense augments.

I think that Sawbones is more of a team player. Giving the weak full health and still being able to push with his health and good weapons really give Saw a great competitive edge. However, Phoenix seems to be more of a carry medic. He can top off the slightly injured, still can heal himself quite well, and can revive himself when there’s no other medics around. So, for me, Phoenix for pug’s, Sawbones for competitive or when I can rely on my team. What do you all think of that opinion? Feel free to completely tear it apart.[/quote]

Even if I discredited myself hugely with my lack of knowledge about the cool down, I will give my 2 cents.

Phoenix has a lot of good load outs. As being in cool down is his main drawback as a medic I think Potent Packs or Extra Supplies is a must. The KE81 has both, but for my taste the KEK is the superior weapon to the Hochfir and this justifies missing out on one of both augments.

In general I would say the more players are in the game the better becomes Phoenix, just because the chances increase that you heal several mercs with one pulse. Playstyle wise is Sawbones the man for healing up a merc to full HP again. Phoenix is more of a emergency medic. Jumping in giving a health boost to as much mercs a possible with one pulse and then being off again, enabling those mercs to finish their push or to survive till they reach a healing station or get a Sawbones medpack.

About the healing power. Yes, Sawbones medpacks can heal up every merc to 100%. But mostly mercs are not down to 1 hp, when they get a heal. With 20hp left Phoenix can heal up most mercs to 100 %. Even a Fragger will be back in game as good as new after a 100 HP pulse. Not to mention that you often hit another merc by accident or mercs come running to a Phoenix, when they see you charge.

(SzGamer227) #14

Here are my 2 cents on the matter.

Sawbonez can bring a nearly dead player to full health extraordinarily quickly, but only when they’re out of combat. He’s got more health, but with the weaker SMG-9 and Blishlock on many of his loadouts and slow self-heal, he’s definitely more suited for staying behind the front line, providing fire suppression and assisting in combat but focusing on support. Support-wise, he definitely has the greatest potential of any medic.

Pheonix can heal himself and other teammates instantly and simultaneously, even when taking fire. Phoenix has a lot to gain by playing on the front lines and working closely with assault mercs. He has the best SMGs available on all loadouts, he can use his heal pulse to turn the tides of a battle, and by staying near teammates, he can make up for his low health by self-reviving while friendlies keep the enemy from finishing him while he’s down.

As a Fletcher main who likes to get up close and personal, I definitely prefer the Phoenix playstyle. B)

(darlingClaymore) #15

Phoenix, is a lot more fun. I can pull a lot more exp with sawbones though, same with aura. But they are to linear, phoenix has a cool pulse and he is fast and can take damage unlike aura.

(JJMAJR) #16

Sawbonez builds are unbalanced compared to Phoenix. His best weapon, the Crotzni, is paired with the best augments, Potent Packs being one of the numerous examples. That’s why in competitive so many people play him.

If he were to be rebalanced without switching up what augments go to which cards, Sawbonez would be playing with the BR-16 (instead of Blishlock) and (instead of SMG-9) the Stark. That’s how poorly his cards were balanced.

[quote=“SzGamer227;152060”]Pheonix can heal himself and other teammates instantly and simultaneously, even when taking fire. Phoenix has a lot to gain by playing on the front lines and working closely with assault mercs. He has the best SMGs available on all loadouts, he can use his heal pulse to turn the tides of a battle, and by staying near teammates, he can make up for his low health by self-reviving while friendlies keep the enemy from finishing him while he’s down.

As a Fletcher main who likes to get up close and personal, I definitely prefer the Phoenix playstyle. B) [/quote]
I prefer being at range, but even then I find purpose in Phoenix. His self-revive adds a whole new layer of tactical play, and one has to remember that charging up his healing pulse isn’t the smartest decision in a firefight because you lower the amount of damage you dish out.

The one reason why I main Phoenix for medics. I only noticed that he’s relatively grind-free when I was trading up for good loadout cards for other classes. There isn’t one bad build for him, and I’m thinking of getting the Phoenix bronze pack for that.

(Ballto) #17

sawbones is the worst medic IMO.

He cant heal through damage like every other medic, forcing you to sit behind cover for a few seconds, making him terrible as a frontlines medic

he has no decent self heal potential as its slow as hell and again stops after taking damage

on defence, aura is better for holding rooms,

on attack, sparks or phoenix are better because self sustainability, heals work under fire, and in sparks case across map revives, and in phoenixes case best healing as you can choose how much HP to give in what situations, and give an insta 120 HP nuke to your entire team, compared to sawbones single target.

Phoenix is the best medic, most just dont know how to use the pulse properly

(Ballto) #18

[quote=“Kelben;152006”]Holding the charge as long as possible will give you 20 seconds cool down. What I havent tested yet is, if you already heal 100HP for 12 seconds cool down and if seconds 13 till 20 are just kind of an excess time, like they “locked” the cool down at the wrong point. Or if you heal for 19 seconds worth of cool down, you dont actually heal the full 100 HP.

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/160222/temp/x6jo2t69.jpg[/quote]

the extra time comes if you hold the charge longer before releasing it (duh) but it caps at 100 HP (120 with potent packs). holding it longer to say, catch up to some asshole running away from you, will increase the CD without upping the heal

(Ritobasu) #19

Phoenix > Sawbonez for me. With potent packs, instantly healing up to 120hp in an AOE radius is amazing, and he’s a lot more slippery to deal with than a Bonez. That’s not even factoring the self-rez into account, and while you do get gibbed a lot, the enemy team ABSOLUTELY cannot ignore you. A medic that can take care of himself whether at low HP or downed is an extremely invaluable team asset, more than people think

Phoenix and Sawbonez are a great killer medic duo that’s capable of going toe to toe with a lot of classes in comp, on top of healing their team really fast. I’m liking this new meta over the old Sawbonez + Sparks, or god forbid Sawbonez + Sawbonez

(RedBeard) #20

[quote=“Ballto;152573”]sawbones is the worst medic IMO.

He cant heal through damage like every other medic, forcing you to sit behind cover for a few seconds, making him terrible as a frontlines medic

he has no decent self heal potential as its slow as hell and again stops after taking damage

on defence, aura is better for holding rooms,

on attack, sparks or phoenix are better because self sustainability, heals work under fire, and in sparks case across map revives, and in phoenixes case best healing as you can choose how much HP to give in what situations, and give an insta 120 HP nuke to your entire team, compared to sawbones single target.

Phoenix is the best medic, most just dont know how to use the pulse properly

[/quote]

oooooooo, that pulse…