Phoenix Self-Revive, too lengthy?

(Reddeadcap) #21

True, I’m more annoyed by how even after Phoenix has revived himself (the process being 3 seconds according to @RyePanda ) The one-two second long animation of him standing up, meaning he successfully revived himself still has him vulnerable, dying while in the process and having his self-revive on cooldown for it.

If time self reviving was shaven off to make it charging and the standing up animation take 3 seconds, I personally wouldn’t mind.

I just feel that the “sweet spot” between unfairly too quick and too long and tedious isn’t met because of this, and this is coming from both sides of being Phoenix in situations where there are a lot of teammates and fighting him.

(extraordinaryEmperor) #22

I just think that it shouldn’t have a CD, just as Nader doesn’t have a CD, but just make the self-revive process much longer, so he’s actually like a ‘Phoenix’, not some sort of ‘part-time Phoenix’. And it could use a more visible animation while self-rezzing to tell both teammates and enemies he’s rezzing.

(Naonna) #23

I would hope one of your in game lives is longer than the cooldown, especially if you’re working with a team.

(Szakalot) #24

the difference is that martyrdom pushes nader back to spawn. Self-revive is self-perpetuating. Phoenix could take an mg nest and self-revive forever while harassing the enemy team.

(extraordinaryEmperor) #25

the difference is that martyrdom pushes nader back to spawn. Self-revive is self-perpetuating. Phoenix could take an mg nest and self-revive forever while harassing the enemy team. [/quote]

And that should be his advantage. And with a longer self-rez timer, it means you have more time to permanently down him. It’s like saying snipers are OP because it 1 shots most classes and can instant down meaning you can get almost no play time.

Very situational circumstances that don’t reflect general gameplay.

(Szakalot) #26

its not very situational to find a spot that you cant be gibbed from, most of high ground works. on the other hand it would make self revive completely unviable in down&dirty firefights, where its actually fun and useful

(extraordinaryEmperor) #27

I don’t see how that is fun.

(ClemClem7) #28

One way to resolve the problem of the CD is to reset the CD if phoenix is gibbed but keep the 1mn cooldown if the self revive is successful, then he will never self revive him infinitely.

On an other part, I just don’t use the self revive blindly if I see an enemy is waiting for it to gib me. You must be aware of ennemies before trying to revive. It’s like when you revive someone else, you need to check if it’s clear before reviving him.

(extraordinaryEmperor) #29

[quote=“ClemClem7;171620”]One way to resolve the problem of the CD is to reset the CD if phoenix is gibbed but keep the 1mn cooldown if the self revive is successful, then he will never self revive him infinitely.

On an other part, I just don’t use the self revive blindly if I see an enemy is waiting for it to gib me. You must be aware of ennemies before trying to revive. It’s like when you revive someone else, you need to check if it’s clear before reviving him.[/quote]

Unless YOU’RE being shot it, it’s a free rez for you anyway. Since all you do is charge and forget, i.e. If it’s safe enough for you, you just charge your defib, run in, rez and run away

(ClemClem7) #30

@extraordinaryEmperor but if you go into the fight, there is chance you get killed, if it’s safe you can rez him. I don’t care about that because I play sparks almost everytime ^^
Anyway, it’s not the problem here. Self revive is a bonus for phoenix, if you get gibbed after self-reviving you, it’s a bad luck or lack of awareness, but you can respawn without delays after that, so it’s not a problem.

(watsyurdeal) #31

Honestly, here’s the thing, if we can’t even use it effectively why the hell do we have it all?

Personally I like the idea of skill indexing it somehow, if you ever played Rage the defib worked in a certain manner. As shown in the video at 7:00

Or, we could do it another way, pressing the context action for self revive starts the process, you have to press it again when you wanna get back up.

This way you self revive with more or less health depending on what you want to do. But the cooldown is still the same.

I mean after all if it’s a quick get up you’ll still die fast right? So at least this way we at least get a chance to be smart, get up and run or get up and fight.

(JJMAJR) #32

I’d rather keep the self-revive as-is.

(Amerika) #33

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;171995”]Honestly, here’s the thing, if we can’t even use it effectively why the hell do we have it all?

Personally I like the idea of skill indexing it somehow, if you ever played Rage the defib worked in a certain manner. As shown in the video at 7:00

Or, we could do it another way, pressing the context action for self revive starts the process, you have to press it again when you wanna get back up.

This way you self revive with more or less health depending on what you want to do. But the cooldown is still the same.

I mean after all if it’s a quick get up you’ll still die fast right? So at least this way we at least get a chance to be smart, get up and run or get up and fight. [/quote]

Because it’s a bonus and you’re rewarded with more usage by having better positioning instead of running into the middle of a fight, dying and then essentially quick-tapping yourself up.

Do you honestly believe you should be able to use it 100% of the time? You’re a guy who is into balancing video game. How does a merc with an instant aoe heal (after charge) and has the ability to revive also get a 100% self-revive where no other medics get that? His healing ability is pretty strong in team fights and for personal survival and he can revive like any other medic with paddles. So he’s not weak with his two main medic abilities. But then he gets a self-revive on top of that which, as it’s balanced, is a bonus for good positioning or just luck. No other medic has this. And you want it to be a nearly 100% of the time thing and reward bad play?

That’s just not good balance compared to how the rest of the game plays out. Aura needs to gain a 2-3 second iron skin buff where she takes no damage. Sparks needs to instantly heal herself without even needing to stop REVIVR charging and Sawbonez needs to call in a disco-ball airstrike and make everyone dance in the area for a few seconds to make a 100% self-revive balanced with the other medics.

I also like the fact that you can be gibbed after it’s activated which puts it on CD. This allows players who are smart to bait it and players who are not smart about it to be baited. It also sometimes is fun to gamble it. Also, with the way it is currently you sometimes have to figure out whether to kill a live threat who is low HP or finishing gibbing the Phoenix who will be full HP on revive.

(watsyurdeal) #34

[quote=“Amerika;172744”]

Because it’s a bonus and you’re rewarded with more usage by having better positioning instead of running into the middle of a fight, dying and then essentially quick-tapping yourself up.

Do you honestly believe you should be able to use it 100% of the time? You’re a guy who is into balancing video game. How does a merc with an instant aoe heal (after charge) and has the ability to revive also get a 100% self-revive where no other medics get that? His healing ability is pretty strong in team fights and for personal survival and he can revive like any other medic with paddles. So he’s not weak with his two main medic abilities. But then he gets a self-revive on top of that which, as it’s balanced, is a bonus for good positioning or just luck. No other medic has this. And you want it to be a nearly 100% of the time thing and reward bad play?

That’s just not good balance compared to how the rest of the game plays out. Aura needs to gain a 2-3 second iron skin buff where she takes no damage. Sparks needs to instantly heal herself without even needing to stop REVIVR charging and Sawbonez needs to call in a disco-ball airstrike and make everyone dance in the area for a few seconds to make a 100% self-revive balanced with the other medics.

I also like the fact that you can be gibbed after it’s activated which puts it on CD. This allows players who are smart to bait it and players who are not smart about it to be baited. It also sometimes is fun to gamble it. Also, with the way it is currently you sometimes have to figure out whether to kill a live threat who is low HP or finishing gibbing the Phoenix who will be full HP on revive.[/quote]

@Amerika

I feel like you missed this part of my post

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;171995”]
Or, we could do it another way, pressing the context action for self revive starts the process, you have to press it again when you wanna get back up.

This way you self revive with more or less health depending on what you want to do. But the cooldown is still the same. [/quote]

In other words, kinda like how the defib works currently, the longer you hold it the more health you receive, and plus there’s still that brief period of time where you can still be gibbed before you fully get up.

And even if you did get up, you’d still probably be taken down pretty quick with such low health.

The thing is if we’re going to have abilities like this they might as well be somewhat viable or useful, the self revive rarely ever works out well. A few small tweaks to it would actually make Phoenix better at his intended role, which is to be the best pick if your team wants to run with a single solitary Medic.

(Amerika) #35

@Watsyurdeal I didn’t miss it and I get what you’re saying. But having something that is a gimmick/bonus in the game that is far more useful than anything else other medics in the game have would require the other medics to be brought up to speed.

Right now it’s a bonus that you gain due to positioning or sheer luck but not a guarantee. Just like how martyrdom works. Every once in a while you’re going to blow somebody up who isn’t paying attention or can’t get away for some reason. It’s not guaranteed nor should it be. Even at a limited capacity of rising with low HP.

(JJMAJR) #36

@Amerika gets Phoenix to the Nth degree.

Phoenix isn’t a rambo class. He’s a portable healing station that is more reliable, as well as being a godforsaken turret when he’s in unreachable ground. Location is critical to using Phoenix, and paradoxically he’s the best medic for leading a charge.

I like using a brain, and honestly having self-revive be extremely cheap and easy takes the fun out of it.

Speaking of good positioning, I want to see a Phoenix with the Blishlock, but then again his cards are already extremely well-balanced, especially compared to Sawbonez or Bushwhacker. (Lock-On…) There would have to be a whole new set of cards for Phoenix to use the Blishlock, but that’s better than a Phoenix card not being good in the first place anyway.

The biggest concern I have though belongs to the fact that SD isn’t changing any of the weapons that they already given the mercenaries, but that’s another discussion.