Phantom Rebalance

(hoyes) #41

Oh and also increase phantoms movement speed to that of a 110hp merc, and then increase the movement speed penalty of the katana to 95% so people are not encouraged to go katana only with his new speed. This would also affect kiratanas.

(JJMAJR) #42

You can always edit your post.

(hoyes) #43

Ik it is just when i typed that i was on my phone and for some reason my phone doesn’t like me editing it.

(hoyes) #44

We could have turtle have a TROPHY system to destroy projectiles inside his shield. It would be extremely effective as a hard counter to all projectiles, and there would also be a new counter to both fragger and thunder.

(JJMAJR) #45

We could have turtle have a TROPHY system to destroy projectiles inside his shield. It would be extremely effective as a hard counter to all projectiles, and there would also be a new counter to both fragger and thunder.[/quote]

Fletcher actually seems to be a better pick for that. Mostly because, lower chance of getting better weapons, the need for a defensive ability and bad HP/SP balance.

Making detonator+bombs part of the same weapon would allow room for Fletcher to get such a device.

Assault classes
[spoiler]Assault classes would be able to destroy players with much better weaponry even if their grenades get countered. Even Nader has better weapons compared to Fletcher, which has to tend to the Blishlock and a pair of shotguns.

And, Nader’s main appeal isn’t the explosives she carries, it’s the fact that she’s extremely easy to revive compared to other characters. Also, Nader would easily be able to breach through such a device if it has limited uses, like in Rainbow Six.[/spoiler]

Fire Supports/Recons
[spoiler]Stoker might be the one that would be hit hardest by this ability though. But again, better weapons, more HP, and the fact that his molotov is not supposed to be used offensively (aside from defending C4 and etc.) offset that fact.

Vassili would technically have a “spotting grenade” but only a jackass would throw a heartbeat sensor into enemy LoS anyways. Aimee’s camera is visible when thrown so not much would change, and to me, the most reasonable ability for Phantom (Kunai, not Comms Hack or seperating EMP) would be completely destroyed by this ability.

Just to be sure though, I think Stoker needs to have some kind of protection against this ability. Probably have the flames splatter all over the place, giving a spectacular light show of screams of pain and nothing to help their situation?

Heh, such beautiful sadism.

Okay, a more detailed explanation:
[spoiler]Stoker’s molotov has a velocity vector attached to it. Once the active defense system detects the molotov, it explodes right then and there, splattering flames in the direction…
-that the molotov originally went
-towards the active defense system
-and directly away from it
…with those flame entities getting a x1.25 increase in speed.

Once those flame entities land, their blast radius is reduced to 30% of their original size, and the total maximum surface area that the molotov originally could cover is reduced by 10%.

This would make Stoker’s molotov weakened by the system, but not completely countered, and Stoker also would have destroyed the thing that caused his beautiful r@pe stick to be put back in his pants.

Or, a better alternative could be that Stoker’s molotov cooldown is replenished by 75%, kind of like Skyhammer’s “oh but it’s indoors” thing but to the second power.[/spoiler]

Speaking of which, Skyhammer should also get his cooldown replenished (by 75% too) if one of those things kill his ability.[/spoiler]

An Active Defense System would really just hard counter two classes. Fletcher’s medium range attacks, and Stoker’s molotov. The rest are more than capable of providing the right firepower provided the deployable has limited shots and dies easily.

Stoker therefore should be protected against that kind of trap, and Fletcher should be the one to deploy that trap.

[spoiler]Unless of course Proxy gets that trap instead.

And if she does, Fletcher could get something like a razorwire/electric/pikachuwire fence to make his abilities more powerful from a defensive perspective.
[spoiler]The fence has a good DoT effect to enemies touching it.
Allies can press the action button when they are within 2m of it to open/close the fence.
Enemies can’t do anything about it but destroy the thing.
The fence doesn’t block shots.
The posts of the fence are its critical hit (x2 DMG) spots.[/spoiler][/spoiler]

I still don’t like the fact that Phantom completely destroys the play style of several characters that really didn’t need additional nerfs to them. But if you have time, take a look at this game…

Sentries are one of the worst abilities in this game. I promise you that you’ll quickly see why.
Nexon really hates sentries, don’t they?

(hoyes) #46

Stokers grenade would explode where it has been destroyed by the defense system,and the flames would drop, giving the stoker non-optimal placement of the grenade. Though i still think turtle would be more suited to this ability as his shield is primarily for defense, and this is one of the best defensive abilities I could think of, making Turtle extremely valuable at denying a push from fragger, nader or Thunder. Fletcher imo is perfectly fine, and i think he would become a bit Overpowered if he gained this ability, as he would be a must pick with ridiculous offensive abilities, being an objective specialist, and having something to deny other assualts abilities. He is already good on defense, you can still set traps with him, as his bombs are less obvious than a mine, and do more accumulative damage. This ability would define Turtles role as a defensive merc, if it is tied to the shield, and would be extremely key to either defending a c4 or generator (bridge), blocking off routes and deflecting bullets. He would5be a must pick, but he would be extremely viable. Especially if he gets the Br16 and he has a good amount of hp (130?), he would be the best defensive merc in the game, along with good offensive capabilities. I just hope bushwhacker gets a good buff aswell to make him a very goodand viable and contender withthe restof the mercs defensive and offensive capabilities.

(JJMAJR) #47

I suggested changes to how Stoker’s grenade would work against this system because that I know he would be hard countered if this thing exists.

Turtle would be overpowered if he is able to both deny Assault abilities from reaching him and also be able to deal with LoS attacks.

Fletcher’s bombs need a nerf so that they aren’t extremely powerful on offense anyways. But he shouldn’t be completely useless, so he needs some tools to make him able to defend better than he does right now.

Same with Proxy, considering how weak her mines are if she can’t throw them around like grenades.

[quote=“Jokder;199357”]He is already good on defense, you can still set traps with him, as his bombs are less obvious than a mine, and do more accumulative damage.

This ability would define Turtles role as a defensive merc, if it is tied to the shield, and would be extremely key to either defending a c4 or generator (bridge), blocking off routes and deflecting bullets. He would5be a must pick, but he would be extremely viable. Especially if he gets the Br16 and he has a good amount of hp (130?), he would be the best defensive merc in the game, along with good offensive capabilities.

I just hope bushwhacker gets a good buff as well to make him a very good and viable and contender with the rest of the mercs defensive and offensive capabilities.[/quote]

In my opinion, the Deployable Cover and the good combat abilities should be more than enough for Turtle to pull weight.

Meanwhile Bushwhacker? I heavily doubt that unless Nexon starts to smarten up, he would remain weak, and the only reason for engineers to exist would be to attack like puppets, dying constantly until the attackers successfully capture the objective or the time runs out.

(Naonna) #48

Please stay on topic, or open up a new thread.
I would rather we not speculate on yet-to-be-added mercs, and would hope to avoid suggesting that we break a perfectly fine merc such as Fletcher.

You’re making me agree with Eox’s arguments about Fletcher post-nerf again. That’s never a good sign for your argument.

If anyone else has something constructive to add about Phantom’s tanky-vs-stealthy debate, please do.

(JJMAJR) #49

Yes, someone please start talking about Phantom again. Even the guy above me, please.

(Drac0rion) #50

Honestly, why bother, there have been many great suggestions for Phantom over more than half a year. He probably has the most posts in merc discussion and after all that time, the best rework the devs decided for was just to give him an EMP field.

Unless something is considered OP and makes the game not fun to play against, it’s not really high on the priority list. So there’s a good chance we’ll see Turtle and maybe even Javelin before Phantom gets a buff/rework to make him relevant.

In about two weeks, it will be a year since I started playing DB and Phantom being the first merc I bought. Still the merc I enjoy playing the most. During this time only SW map that’s been added is Dome, a map that I actually enjoy.

Maybe I’m just expecting too much from a small team that’s working on DB from SD’s 75 employees. But I find that the game just isn’t changing enough, especially when I look at all the other fun shooters that are coming out or gaining popularity. DB will remain unique, but it’s really getting old for me at least.

I really had high hopes for the Phantom rework when it was first announced and since he was considered OP on his release in open beta, it was safe to assume that SD wouldn’t dare to make Phantom straight up OP with the rework.
But personally, for my playstyle with Phantom, I found the rework to be more of a general nerf than a successful rework.

I’m just afraid that SD is satisfied with their rework of Phantom and he won’t see any more adjustments for another 10 months or so. Or maybe SD actually wants to make Phantom the weebstick ninja that the beginner players aim for, considering how EMP field limits Phantom to rather close range and how most of the 2nd gen Phantom loadouts have a lot more melee benefits than the first gen.

If a dev could confirm that Phantom is indeed heading more towards melee playstyle I might as well just quit playing him now, instead of clinging on to the hope of ever seeing him being a viable pick for a comp mode.

(JJMAJR) #51

Take notes, SD, because I don’t want to play this game no more.

(Naonna) #52

good. ‘-’ We’ll keep playing it while you go.

(symbolicManatee) #53

  1. Do something to the stealth/armor

  2. Separate EMP from it

  3. Make EMP a grenade or some other type of deployable (not something that can be thrown across map). With a distinct sound cue once it goes off, so people know it is okay to rush in.

Possibly even give it fuse time so enemy has ability to react to it and even possibly destroy it before it goes off.

Possibly even make it spot the enemy deployables affected by it. Maybe even permanently until they are destroyed or redeployed. Enemies should have a marker that their deployables are being spotted.