Will Phantom ever get his deserved fix/buff? The overnerf just makes him a bit of a dead merc.
Just an idea, maybe capitalise on his melee concept and instead of having a primary, he only has a pistol but always has a knife out (like tactical knife from COD). And all cards have the katana (it’s basically like an ability).
OR, they could just make his walking visibility lower, so he can actually sneak behind people.
I don’t it’s a visibility problem, moreso a audio problem.
His invisibility sounds like a lawnmower. I hear him every time with my headphones at 15 volume and the sound is just so annoying.
[quote=“extraordinaryEmperor;22419”]Will Phantom ever get his deserved fix/buff? The overnerf just makes him a bit of a dead merc.
Just an idea, maybe capitalise on his melee concept and instead of having a primary, he only has a pistol but always has a knife out (like tactical knife from COD). And all cards have the katana (it’s basically like an ability).[/quote]
That was essentially what he had back in the alpha. Sword and pistol and had a charge ability. At least that’s what I’ve read about. SD found that they couldn’t really balance him that made people happy. They either made him too powerful or completely useless. And regardless it upset people because it always felt cheap.
So they nixed that idea and made him a gun reliant merc who has some stealth and more chances for melee and require a player to be smart with their usage. He’s not a melee merc so he doesn’t have a “melee concept”. That’s an invention of players who incorrectly assume that Katana = melee merc despite never being advertised or shown as such.
@Amerika Maybe instead of having a stealth that’s basically useless once moving, why not give him an instant 100% soundless, invisibility that lasts for only several seconds so that he can instantly reposition and kill or run away, hence “Phantom”.
If you aren’t charging at people with your armor up people won’t hear you. Or if you uncloak at a safe distance where they can’t easily spot/hear you. Or you do it during a firefight. You can easily headshot people with this style of play and leave yourself an escape route. You don’t get any of that if you want to chase somebody across a map so you can try to click them to stab them. Intelligent play is required to use him effectively. Food for thought.
His main issue is that he’s a terrible recon class and he needs to be given a team helping ability like every other merc has that aren’t assaults. The most obvious one is just give him a spotting ability but there are more creative things that could be done too.
@Amerika you have to admit Phantom’s ability sound effect is way too loud, even when moving slowly or standing still. I understand the points you are making, and I like your description of a gun merc with melee chances (with a RECON ABILITY for the 2nd, yes!) but the balancing of the camo with a ridiculously loud audio que is insane. He’s already visible enough, too. My buddy thought it wasn’t too loud (but kinda loud), and then he played on my higher end PC and then agreed with me. Any good sound system = Phantom is LOUUDDDDD!!! Heh.
Your only chance to react to him is through sound. If you get too close you will give away your exact position and good players will have a chance to counter you. This is by design. If you could barely hear the sound or could only hear it when they were sitting on top of you then a player gets no time to react. If you are trying to melee in situations where you shouldn’t be doing melee you’ll have issues with people hearing you. If you aren’t trying to melee all the time you’ll have very few issues.
I think the sound is perfectly fine as it is since it lets players react. That’s why I learned how to play around the sound and even use it to my advantage at times.
I still think that phantom was a terrible release and that a few people might have lost faith in DB because of it.
Your only chance to react to him is through sound. If you get too close you will give away your exact position and good players will have a chance to counter you. This is by design. If you could barely hear the sound or could only hear it when they were sitting on top of you then a player gets no time to react. If you are trying to melee in situations where you shouldn’t be doing melee you’ll have issues with people hearing you. If you aren’t trying to melee all the time you’ll have very few issues.
I think the sound is perfectly fine as it is since it lets players react. That’s why I learned how to play around the sound and even use it to my advantage at times.[/quote]
You’re trying to be very positive, which I respect, and I can top a pug with Phantom occasionally myself (albeit not anywhere as useful if I played another class), but the sound is too loud (but it’s existence is understood). I get the chance to react idea, but holy crap how early do you need to know? I can hear a Phantom on B stairwell from B pylon backside…
I hope whatever change is made to him for his recon role is fun and useful. I wanna love him so much, but he just isn’t an asset. Thanks for the words.
If you are by yourself on a flank why don’t you turn off your armor to move more silently? I do that if I want to sneak up behind a spawn wave and it also gets my recharge going so I can use it to quickly escape. You don’t have to have the armor up all the time when moving. I typically have it up when I start a flank and am crossing an area where I might take damage. Then I turn it off to recharge and move more silently on my flank and then turn it back on to sit in a corner or if I am about to engage immediately after to ensure I always hit first in fights (in case they turn around and see me or somebody else sees me…it also gives me the option to run).
I get that if a person is using the armor all the time and wants to be super sneaky they want the sound to be less but that only provides people with an easier time of getting in close for melee which SD doesn’t want due to it being hard to counter and the feeling of “unfair” (justifiable or not) is pretty common and causes people to be upset as noted by all the forms of communication back when Phantom was first released which prompted the sound, melee, armor and HP changes.
If he was slightly changed to be given a spotting ability or something akin to that he’d find a lot more use. But even then he might be niche in 5v5 since there are only 5 mercs on the field and it’s hard not to have a Fragger, two medics and an engineer at all times. He’s in that spot in 5v5 that is super competitive which doesn’t help. And it’s hard to justify him instead of a fire support or Nader even if he becomes more helpful. But I think giving him a secondary would at least give him some team play options that allows some strats to work around him being used while also not making him cheap.
I think we can assume that Splash Damage:
I mean I can pug up my Phantom and do good, but any decent player can pick at least half the roster if not anyone else and do just as well if not incredibly better, with half the effort.
Might go play Sparks for awhile. I’ll get more people screaming “cheap” and “so OP” at my getting ACE’s with REVIVR headshots round after round, but it’s balanced.
I guess we’ll have to see what SD does and what team support ability @Amerika also expects to know if he’ll ever be more playable. Shame on SD for screwing up his release to doom his existence to crap. I only picked this game up because of Phantom in the promo.
Go try to get consistent 50+ kill sides with Sparks and post them. There is a difference between being OP due to revive mechanics and also annoying players with ranged sniping and being a powerhouse killer. Sparks needs some changes but it’s not because she drops tons of people easily.
And a few of your assumptions are pretty biased and doesn’t reflect what has been posted by SD themselves nor actual play by good players who aren’t trying to force him into being melee-centric. You are going off of what you want as opposed to what actually is.
In that promo video Phantom could more easily be seen than he can in game currently. He also only showcased a pistol and no SMG. It’s not a reflection of the game but simply creative license. His role-call video did not say he was a melee merc. In fact they only gave his Katana a short scene to show it and SD immediately told everyone that day that the Katana would be released for other mercs.
[quote=“Amerika;135339”]
That was essentially what he had back in the alpha. Sword and pistol and had a charge ability. At least that’s what I’ve read about. SD found that they couldn’t really balance him that made people happy. They either made him too powerful or completely useless. And regardless it upset people because it always felt cheap.
So they nixed that idea and made him a gun reliant merc who has some stealth and more chances for melee and require a player to be smart with their usage. He’s not a melee merc so he doesn’t have a “melee concept”. That’s an invention of players who incorrectly assume that Katana = melee merc despite never being advertised or shown as such.[/quote]
Even before then he was actually the original owner of the FEL-IX, He was too powerful with both a sniper rifle and a powerful melee weapon, the ability to cloak and higher health so they gave him a loadout literally consisting of a katana, pistol and another katana.
He is a cloaking commando and should be useful in close range, not exactly melee range, but reaching that close to an enemy is difficult due to how loud his cloak sounds.
That’s kind of what I like though. Being smart in his ability usage is what makes him fun for me. Phantoms who try to stab me find out that when I hear the cloak sound loud enough to be near I long jump and they whiff pretty often. But the Phantoms who come up behind me and just shoot me in the back of the head constantly win out unless they just have inconsistent aim. That’s really the long and short of it. If you try to melee you get heard and people who know how to beat it easily will. If you don’t try to melee and instead setup good shots with easy escapes you constantly win. Especially when you go around the corner while putting up his armor and then immediately sit and hide (knowing dark areas helps) as somebody chases. You then either dome them with a gun or even melee if they are the right range/hp to left click them. It’s ridiculous how well it works. Same with baiting people using the cloak’s sound by making them come investigate as you sit and wait.
I have fun with stuff like that and a lot of success. Sadly many people don’t play like that and thus think “oh god I didn’t get an easy melee kill on a guy so Phantom is bad PLS BUFF STEALTH”.
I think enough people play or have played TF2 and will compare him to Spy. Now Spy is a fairly melee orientated class that relies on a good position. He can instantly kill anyone from behind but is not considered op by anyone.
Now with phantom I think a lot of people consider him as a commando who goes behind enemy lines to take out an mg or a sniper. Except if he’s using cloak to run across the battlefield, he’s easily seen anyway so it’s kinda counter intuitive. If he tries to crouch walk across it, it’s a waste of time. And if you play him like you say you do Amerika, then you may as well just go bushwhacker and be more useful instead.
I do wish that DB would fix up Phantom along with Thunder so I have a higher playable merc pool.
[quote=“Amerika;135742”]Go try to get consistent 50+ kill sides with Sparks and post them. There is a difference between being OP due to revive mechanics and also annoying players with ranged sniping and being a powerhouse killer. Sparks needs some changes but it’s not because she drops tons of people easily.
And a few of your assumptions are pretty biased and doesn’t reflect what has been posted by SD themselves nor actual play by good players who aren’t trying to force him into being melee-centric. You are going off of what you want as opposed to what actually is.
In that promo video Phantom could more easily be seen than he can in game currently. He also only showcased a pistol and no SMG. It’s not a reflection of the game but simply creative license. His role-call video did not say he was a melee merc. In fact they only gave his Katana a short scene to show it and SD immediately told everyone that day that the Katana would be released for other mercs.[/quote]
I use his guns and I’ve been complimented many times as “best Phantom I’ve seen” or “actually useful”. I’m not forcing his melee (others on the forums are however).
Your defense is based around the fact he even has a gun. Anyone is “viable” because they can kill/have a gun, in that sense. It’s about what utility and role you can fit, to make that more possible and assist your team. Phantom lacks here grossly, and his ability is poorly retrofitted. The actual stealth mechanic is useless against a good player, and the armor goes away the moment you try to kill someone. Let’s make a Bushwhacker where his turret doesn’t fire, or blows up, if he shoots. And strip away objective specialist. The same feels. I get you have your own opinions, but even if your life schedule allows you to upload a ton of videos and post a ton of posts, you’re still massively in the minority on the Phantom uselessness community feels. I’ve even been kicked from game before getting 1 kill or death just for picking Phantom, too.
My Sparks run was Execution and I had 12.5k points and was called a hacker twice. This is par for the course, however.