Phantom before and now :(

(sgtCrookyGrin) #1

Before the update (C94 loadout)

After the update

You will be missed Phantom :frowning:

(Jostabeere) #2

I cri evrytiem.

(XavienX) #3

Exactly, he doesn’t even need his cloak anymore because it’s still useless af right now due to his current viable playstyle build.

(Sinee) #4

Pretty much.

-waits for @Amerika to come spank everyone for using melee!Phantom- :tongue:

(sgtCrookyGrin) #5

I should try and fade out each of the characters in these GIFs some time, showing how viable Phantom’s cloak is in game XD (someone made a comic in a “best DB meme” thread showing this as an example, problem is I don’t remember where it is -_-)

(Merci1ess) #6

Yeah they knew about Phantom not being very good for a very long time now and didn’t do anything about it yet…

But… P.S! Dirty Bomb is awesome.

(Jostabeere) #7

[quote=“Mercy;155614”]Pretty much.

-waits for @Amerika to come spank everyone for using melee!Phantom- :tongue: [/quote]

Which makes no sense in my eyes. Noone complained about Spy not fitting into TF2.

(watsyurdeal) #8

Thing is Spy in TF2 relied TOO much on melee. The Ambassador is a God send but the revolvers in general could used an accuracy buff.

As for Phantom, his problem stems from lack of being a team player.

(LifeupOmega) #9

It’s almost like he wasn’t meant to use melee as his only way to kill people, and a gun will always do better in this game. C51 compliments his gun play far more than the C94 ever could. I honestly don’t know why people keep trying to push him into a melee role when it’ll just end up with him being even more useless, I’d rather see him get recon abilities or a decent rework that’ll make him less useless to a team.

As for TF2’s Spy, look at most pro players, they use the Ambassador for the majority of their games over a knife due to the higher risk now that players have wisened up to a Spy’s presence. He also has a completely different toolkit overall with a large focus on making his picks possible but not broken. He can’t attack in cloak, his knife is a one hit kill regardless of player health (it will always deal 6x current health) from the back, he has the ability to disguise as other players, his cloak is 100% concealed with shimmer on contact or damage, and he’s designed to be able to capitalise on using his melee. TF2 is also a much more rock, paper, scissors game at its core, the Spy exists to take out Engineers and key targets in a push, and the Pyro exists to stop the Spy - Dirty Bomb is not like this at all, every merc has a decent chance to kill another merc in any situation, with it mostly coming down to who can aim better. It’s why Phantom just doesn’t work as a melee merc, because everyone else can still kill you faster than you can get to them and you don’t exist to counter anything. You have no inherent advantage against another merc just by being Phantom.

Phantom is not the Spy, he’s another (should be) recon merc who utilises his cloak to get into a superior position to pick off others quickly with a gun. His gimmicky sword is a noob trap that will get you killed against better players most of the time, unless you literally sit in one spot and wait for them to pass by, meanwhile a Phantom using the Kek-10 will be killing people far more often with far greater consistency.

(Amerika) #10

[quote=“Jostabeere;155626”][quote=“Mercy;155614”]Pretty much.

-waits for @Amerika to come spank everyone for using melee!Phantom- :tongue: [/quote]

Which makes no sense in my eyes. Noone complained about Spy not fitting into TF2.[/quote]

TF2 is balanced entirely differently than DB. I’ve talked about that particular subject probably 20 times and I’m sure you’ve read at least one of those posts. DB’s reviews and player base dropped off the face of the Earth when Phantom was originally released. When you release a merc with that much HP, that much defense, extremely hard to see and hear and they can pretty much flat out murder anybody without counter it allows extremely bad players to do decently against good players (and destroying new players who weren’t Phantom). And that wasn’t even how you played Phantom at his strongest on release. But it did allow bad players to do OK sometimes at the cost of pissing off a lot of people.

(sgtCrookyGrin) #11

This is just a memorial for a funny way to play this game, remember the beyblades? It was annoying but hilarious.

(Reddeadcap) #12

@Watsyurdeal Not just that but that too many aspects of Phantom’s cloak were changed for the worst after his release due to the backlash.

Here are some examples of what I mean.

Health lowered to 110: I don’t get why.
If Merc appearance dictates how much health they have and at what speed they walk then Phantom should definitely be the 120 health Recon, 110 for Redeye, 100 fo Vasilli and 100-90 for Aimee.
Even if that change was necessary, his speed wasn’t changed to match his health pool. this is also the case with Vasilli and Thunder who have 110 and 160 health but still move as if they had 100 and 170 respectively. Phantom still moving as if he had 120.
This is why I’ve suggested to make him move like Phoenix at 120 health and trash the shield aspect of his cloak, maybe forcing him to actively uncloak if he wants to attack. With it just lampshaded that his armor while durable is rather lightweight.

Cloak Visibility, Audibility: It’s still rather visible. better than before but how loud it is is just ridiculous even when one is crouch walking.

Cloak Protection: I’m thankful that the overkill damage to Phantom’s cloak applies to his health but SD also decreased it’s duration and recharge speed thus making it less protective.

Heavy Attacks: The Katana’s range and frames of it’s attack were decreased so it’d “hit less”.
That said all Heavy attacks were given a pointless mouse sensitivity reduction.
I know this contradicts what I’ve suggested for Thunder but it coming from a source purposely meant to leave enemies vulnerable makes more sense than it applied on every heavy melee attack because one weapon was too powerful on release, especially when the weapon was needed accordingly

Finally, Detection. If Phantom was released along with or After Redeye I swear the reaction to him wouldn’t be as negative as being detected Uncloaked Phantom, but not anymore, which is pretty counterproductive to try to stay invisible while being marked.

(watsyurdeal) #13

Yea, it’s almost like Splash realized Armor was a bad idea, but instead of removing that aspect they just gimped him altogether. Greeeeeeeat

(Reddeadcap) #14

It’s sadly not just Phantom’s shield though. Like o said with the health/movement speed aspect. Between Phantom’s meganerf and the most recent patches, changes have been inconsistent. Health/movement speed With Phantom, Thunder and Vasilli are a fine example.

(l2c) #15

Everyone sees through the “cloak”.
The heavy melee attack doesn’t one-shot much, and is slow as hell for getting in another swing (or doing anything).
Snipers can’t be one-shot. Can’t remember a single other game where snipers have the most hp.
The runspeed. Seriously. You can’t catch up to anything, even when they’re running backwards.
No utility. Phantom has cloak/surprise attack that is shit, and nothing else.

I for one hope they don’t turn him into a recon, as the katana + cloak is why I got him. Vassilli already has the spotterball, what else is there to recon? It’s hard to use a cloak for anything other than surprise attacks.
I’d love to see a proper cloak that isn’t visible, a heavy melee attack that doesn’t lock you up while not killing anything, more runspeed, and/or more damage on the katana.

(TheVulpesFox) #16

[quote=“sgtCrookyGrin;24751”]Before the update (C94 loadout)

[/quote]
What game is this from (assuming it is a game)?

(Reddeadcap) #17

@TheVulpesFox For Honor.

(Jesus) #18

Internet Explorer is that you ? I thought i made you dig your own grave when I used you to download Firefox how come it you are still alive.

(Jostabeere) #19

[quote=“Amerika;155701”][quote=“Jostabeere;155626”][quote=“Mercy;155614”]Pretty much.

-waits for @Amerika to come spank everyone for using melee!Phantom- :tongue: [/quote]

Which makes no sense in my eyes. Noone complained about Spy not fitting into TF2.[/quote]

TF2 is balanced entirely differently than DB. I’ve talked about that particular subject probably 20 times and I’m sure you’ve read at least one of those posts. DB’s reviews and player base dropped off the face of the Earth when Phantom was originally released. When you release a merc with that much HP, that much defense, extremely hard to see and hear and they can pretty much flat out murder anybody without counter it allows extremely bad players to do decently against good players (and destroying new players who weren’t Phantom). And that wasn’t even how you played Phantom at his strongest on release. But it did allow bad players to do OK sometimes at the cost of pissing off a lot of people.[/quote]

And then SD decided to just nerf him beyond Vassili usefulness instead of properly changing the way he is, but still allow people to play him as a melee-only merc.

(Amerika) #20

You can play melee only with any merc. Phantom is no different other than instead of having a cricket bat he gets a Katana.

And he was useless in high end competitive 5v5 before any nerfs took place. He is and always has been good in pubs. You mostly see the, “Phantom sucks” threads because a lot those people have chosen, for some reason, to completely forget that he has a gun and instead try to use his sword when it doesn’t make any sense. They want to chase people into large crowds of people and then get pissed when they die before they get there or die immediately after killing somebody.