Phantom - As viewed by the community

(watsyurdeal) #61

[quote=“sentimentalDime;99290”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;99278”][quote=“Telzen;99266”]

Nope[/quote]

Then you’re in utter denial[/quote]
@Watsyurdeal
Or he doesn’t share your opinion.[/quote]

He doesn’t have to share my opinion, but he has to at least back it up. If he can acutally give a damn good argument as to why Phantom is fine in his current state, then his opinion has merit. Otherwise, it means jack, and simply disagreeing doesn’t mean Phantom is fine as is, just like how a few people who can use Phantom on pubs doesn’t mean he’s actually good at his job or contributes anything important to the game.

(sentimentalDime) #62

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;99293”][quote=“sentimentalDime;99290”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;99278”][quote=“Telzen;99266”]

Nope[/quote]

Then you’re in utter denial[/quote]
@Watsyurdeal
Or he doesn’t share your opinion.[/quote]

He doesn’t have to share my opinion, but he has to at least back it up. If he can acutally give a damn good argument as to why Phantom is fine in his current state, then his opinion has merit. Otherwise, it means jack, and simply disagreeing doesn’t mean Phantom is fine as is, just like how a few people who can use Phantom on pubs doesn’t mean he’s actually good at his job or contributes anything important to the game.[/quote]

Why does he have to back your opinion up if he doesn’t share it? And why does he have to give a damn good argument as to why Phantom is fine?

(watsyurdeal) #63

[quote=“sentimentalDime;99314”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;99293”][quote=“sentimentalDime;99290”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;99278”][quote=“Telzen;99266”]

Nope[/quote]

Then you’re in utter denial[/quote]
@Watsyurdeal
Or he doesn’t share your opinion.[/quote]

He doesn’t have to share my opinion, but he has to at least back it up. If he can acutally give a damn good argument as to why Phantom is fine in his current state, then his opinion has merit. Otherwise, it means jack, and simply disagreeing doesn’t mean Phantom is fine as is, just like how a few people who can use Phantom on pubs doesn’t mean he’s actually good at his job or contributes anything important to the game.[/quote]

Why does he have to back your opinion up if he doesn’t share it? And why does he have to give a damn good argument as to why Phantom is fine?[/quote]

Back up HIS opinion, and he has to back it up because simply saying he is fine while ignoring all of the arguments to the contrary, is denial. Like others have said before, just because you can use Phantom on pubs doesn’t mean he’s balanced.

(sentimentalDime) #64

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;99315”][quote=“sentimentalDime;99314”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;99293”][quote=“sentimentalDime;99290”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;99278”][quote=“Telzen;99266”]

Nope[/quote]

Then you’re in utter denial[/quote]
@Watsyurdeal
Or he doesn’t share your opinion.[/quote]

He doesn’t have to share my opinion, but he has to at least back it up. If he can acutally give a damn good argument as to why Phantom is fine in his current state, then his opinion has merit. Otherwise, it means jack, and simply disagreeing doesn’t mean Phantom is fine as is, just like how a few people who can use Phantom on pubs doesn’t mean he’s actually good at his job or contributes anything important to the game.[/quote]

Why does he have to back your opinion up if he doesn’t share it? And why does he have to give a damn good argument as to why Phantom is fine?[/quote]

Back up HIS opinion, and he has to back it up because simply saying he is fine while ignoring all of the arguments to the contrary, is denial. Like others have said before, just because you can use Phantom on pubs doesn’t mean he’s balanced.
[/quote]

Ah, gotcha on the backing up opinions part, but still, he can feel that Phantom is balanced for no apparent reason.

(watsyurdeal) #65

Yea, and he has the right, but much like when someone says something like x movie is good or bad, they usually need to back it up to be taken seriously.

Or if you get into more serious subjects like politics, you’ll just look like an idiot who has an opinion, but not smart enough to explain your reasoning.

(gg2ez) #66

I think I just got necro’d.

(Telzen) #67

I’ve been reading these Phantom discussions since he came out. I’m well aware that none of us are going to change each others opinions, that’s why I didn’t go into any more detail.

(ProfPlump) #68

People assume that Phantom should be able to use nothing but his katana and be able to get a decent success rate in fights.

Guys, he has a fucking KEK-10. Use that for opponents who are not positioned correctly for a melee attack (such as an Aura who runs past you but not close enough for a melee attack). Basically you should only use your katana if your opponent is slow enough for you to chase down OR if that opponent is dumb enough to come close to you (or if you are hiding next to a popular route for enemies to run through).

Phantom absolutely can work well at the moment. I think he could use a tiny buff to his katana’s damage and swipe rate, but apart from that he is perfectly usable. The only thing that I think is bad on Phantom right now is his Katana.

(ProfPlump) #69

Sorry buddy, Devs said it themselves in the last stream. "Phantom will never be getting a spotter ability like other recons because his job is killing people [/quote]

Then I disagree with the developers on that one, especially since killing people is something everyone can do. Some even do it better than Phantom can. If anything, Phantom is the best camper in the game.[/quote]

You see, wierd things happen when different people play Phantom and I’ve noticed it too. Bad players make Phantom sh*ttier than anything, Good player somehow manage to destroy people as Phantom - you won’t ever see the good players camping - only the bad ones. [/quote]

Good Phantom players will sometimes camp if they stand completely still on busy routes on the map, catching oblivious mercs off guard. Phantom is incredibly hard to see while he is standing still, so it’s definitely a viable tactic, especially if that Phantom is behind enemy lines and is able to call out enemy positions to his team while waiting for the perfect time to strike.

When our team was pushing the EV on Chapel, I once pushed behind their defence and waited - their team respawned and ran in front of me, leaving their Sparks at the back (closest to me) so that she could revive the entire team from one position. So I took her out first with one swipe, used the KEK-10 to destroy the nearby Vassili and then went invisible again as their entire team spun around to try and find me - and if one ever came over to their bodies I would strike and kill them (or at least heavily damage them and gain the advantage) before they could react. Then I would disappear again. THAT is how Phantom should be played - not as a Rambo class who just runs at people while relying on his shield for protection, but as an ambusher who is patient and waits for the perfect time to strike and the perfect time to disappear again before he gets in trouble.

(gg2ez) #70

Sorry buddy, Devs said it themselves in the last stream. "Phantom will never be getting a spotter ability like other recons because his job is killing people [/quote]

Then I disagree with the developers on that one, especially since killing people is something everyone can do. Some even do it better than Phantom can. If anything, Phantom is the best camper in the game.[/quote]

You see, wierd things happen when different people play Phantom and I’ve noticed it too. Bad players make Phantom sh*ttier than anything, Good player somehow manage to destroy people as Phantom - you won’t ever see the good players camping - only the bad ones. [/quote]

Good Phantom players will sometimes camp if they stand completely still on busy routes on the map, catching oblivious mercs off guard. Phantom is incredibly hard to see while he is standing still, so it’s definitely a viable tactic, especially if that Phantom is behind enemy lines and is able to call out enemy positions to his team while waiting for the perfect time to strike.

When our team was pushing the EV on Chapel, I once pushed behind their defence and waited - their team respawned and ran in front of me, leaving their Sparks at the back (closest to me) so that she could revive the entire team from one position. So I took her out first with one swipe, used the KEK-10 to destroy the nearby Vassili and then went invisible again as their entire team spun around to try and find me - and if one ever came over to their bodies I would strike and kill them (or at least heavily damage them and gain the advantage) before they could react. Then I would disappear again. THAT is how Phantom should be played - not as a Rambo class who just runs at people while relying on his shield for protection, but as an ambusher who is patient and waits for the perfect time to strike and the perfect time to disappear again before he gets in trouble.[/quote]

Pls Plumpy, this thread is like a month or so old now. A lot has changed since a posted this.

(Sir_Slam) #71

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;99179”]

So then, we are all in agreement then? That Phantom’s problem is his ability really doesn’t help much in the stealth department, and he doesn’t need the armor cause he’s not a tank, and with all that considered, he’s no different than any other SMG and 110 hp merc, except the others have abilities that are actually very good. While Phantom is just not up to snuff.[/quote]

Essentially. I would argue without the armor, hes COMPLETELY boned right now. I agree that its just weird and convoluted, but he likely wouldn’t be able to do anything at all without it.

Phantom’s issues stem from the amount of time and effort it takes for him to be effective, and his lack of utility even compared to other assault mercs.

To be honest I’m not convinced I even want a stealth character in a game like this. In TF2, there were a thousand ways to get wrecked instantly. It was par for the course, and in some ways part of the fun. It was batsht fckin stupid, and enjoyable because of that.

In DB though, getting jumped by an invisible man would just feel… lame. The devs know that, so they made his armor buzz like my granny’s toys to give the defender a reflex time. Which, in turn, makes phantom useless as a stealth character. I just don’t think it’ll work in a game centered around the skill sets that dirtybomb is, because the entire notion is set up to avoid them.

(Grave_Knight) #72

So I’ve been playing with a knife loadout with Phantom lately. His stealth mechanic is fine and all (especially when it works) but I’ve noticed some glaring flaws. His health is a bit too low considering he’s suppose to be a self sufficient fighter. I think bring him back to 120 would fix this. My other problem is, why does he take headshot damage when his shield is up? It might be tricky to code but I think he should be immune to headshots when his shield is up.

(My ideas are probably not as well thought up as I think. If there are glaring flaws please point them out.)

(watsyurdeal) #73

[quote=“Sir_Slam;100308”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;99179”]

So then, we are all in agreement then? That Phantom’s problem is his ability really doesn’t help much in the stealth department, and he doesn’t need the armor cause he’s not a tank, and with all that considered, he’s no different than any other SMG and 110 hp merc, except the others have abilities that are actually very good. While Phantom is just not up to snuff.[/quote]

Essentially. I would argue without the armor, hes COMPLETELY boned right now. I agree that its just weird and convoluted, but he likely wouldn’t be able to do anything at all without it.

Phantom’s issues stem from the amount of time and effort it takes for him to be effective, and his lack of utility even compared to other assault mercs.

To be honest I’m not convinced I even want a stealth character in a game like this. In TF2, there were a thousand ways to get wrecked instantly. It was par for the course, and in some ways part of the fun. It was batsht fckin stupid, and enjoyable because of that.

In DB though, getting jumped by an invisible man would just feel… lame. The devs know that, so they made his armor buzz like my granny’s toys to give the defender a reflex time. Which, in turn, makes phantom useless as a stealth character. I just don’t think it’ll work in a game centered around the skill sets that dirtybomb is, because the entire notion is set up to avoid them.
[/quote]

If Phantom has to delcoak to attack you like the Spy does, and has no instant kill, then what’s the problem?

He’d just become the best flanker in the game, which would give him something nobody else has. And it would be balanced since you can catch him while he is decloaking and take him out.

(Kaori1) #74

[quote=“Amerika;84959”]He’s horribly underpowered. Please buff. If he was properly balanced I would have won.

So wait, you’re lvl 47 playing against 6 players under lvl 20…and you’re killing them. Yup hes balanced, case closed! Thank you for reminding me why I stopped playing this game.

Your steam profile: http://steamcommunity.com/id/amerika 505 hours played
One of the random lowbie pubs you were fighting: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197965552177 42 hours played

“Levels means nothing”…but playtime speaks volumes and levels are a small representation of that.

(Grave_Knight) #75

[quote=“Kaori1;100875”][quote=“Amerika;84959”]He’s horribly underpowered. Please buff. If he was properly balanced I would have won.

So wait, you’re lvl 47 playing against 6 players under lvl 20…and you’re killing them. Yup hes balanced, case closed! Thank you for reminding me why I stopped playing this game.

Your steam profile: http://steamcommunity.com/id/amerika 505 hours played
One of the random lowbie pubs you were fighting: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197965552177 42 hours played

“Levels means nothing”…but playtime speaks volumes and levels are a small representation of that. [/quote]

His point is that there is no reason to change his mechanic, to make him something he’s not. Too many of the suggestions want him to be the TF2 Spy.

EDIT: Surprise, surprise, the guy who wants to turn Phantom into the TF2 Spy disagrees.

(HoakinBlackforge) #76

I think the point to balance him is: Make him deadly enough, but vulnerable enough at the same time.

If he was just simply fully invisible it would be just fine.

(mrpizzaiscool) #77

Personally, speaking from Phantom experience, I would like his katana’s secondary attack to get a bit more range and damage. That’s all I really want because the secondary does not have as much range as it probably should, and think because of how hard he is attacking on the secondary it should be more damaging so it makes it a viable 1 shot kill move but with a debilitating period in which you cannot attack. I would be fine with the range increase though because that attack does not have at all what it should.

(Grave_Knight) #78

Range, yes, damage no. Without chopped the thrust does 90 damage with chopped it does a 103 damage. Before all the nerf hubbub the best way to take care of any merc was thrust, than cut and cut again for the gib (Rhino is the only merc that can survive that).

(watsyurdeal) #79

[quote=“Grave Knight;100894”][quote=“Kaori1;100875”][quote=“Amerika;84959”]He’s horribly underpowered. Please buff. If he was properly balanced I would have won.

So wait, you’re lvl 47 playing against 6 players under lvl 20…and you’re killing them. Yup hes balanced, case closed! Thank you for reminding me why I stopped playing this game.

Your steam profile: http://steamcommunity.com/id/amerika 505 hours played
One of the random lowbie pubs you were fighting: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197965552177 42 hours played

“Levels means nothing”…but playtime speaks volumes and levels are a small representation of that. [/quote]

His point is that there is no reason to change his mechanic, to make him something he’s not. Too many of the suggestions want him to be the TF2 Spy.

EDIT: Surprise, surprise, the guy who wants to turn Phantom into the TF2 Spy disagrees.[/quote]

Because when the alternative is a guy who is tankier than Thunder, sucks at actually being stealthy, and brings jack squat to the team. Yea, I think it’s pretty obvious where he is right now, and that making him like the Spy would actually, you know, make him worth using.

(EverythingElse) #80

Phantoms a faggot (basically Phantom in a nutshell). He has literally no utility, and mostly is never used in competitive. It’s basically a noobs merc.