Phanboys

(Verticules) #1

Why does it seem that every other post is about Phantom? Did he use to fill a different niche in the game and now doesnt? Is he just the coolest merc, but people are frustrated they can’t do well using him? Or do people really think he is underpowered and are fearful for his viability in the game?

My questions for you guys are:

  1. Is his skill cap on the higher or lower side?
  2. Could future cross-class mercs open a spot for this merc in team composition?

I don’t play him, so my opinion wouldn’t matter, nor do I have one.

(frolicsomeCrane) #2

He’s fun but pretty bad.

I don’t really get why they don’t remove the turn rate on right click already since they pretty much removed the beyblade phantom.

(Faraleth) #3

To answer your questions in your opening paragraph first - there are a lot of posts about Phantom because he is a heavily disputed merc since his release in open-beta, as he was notoriously over-powered, before a swift and heavy nerf that made him incredibly redundant. The “obsession” with him is in fact the opposite of him filling a niche, because he SHOULD in theory, but when it comes down to how he plays, he doesn’t. And he isn’t technically “underpowered”, he’s just a bad merc that is designed completely wrong for what he is supposed to be (which is basically, a stealth/scouter/assassin merc).

As for your other questions:

  1. His skill requirement is definitely more on the higher side now, ever since his original nerf.

  2. It could do, however one of the most commonly disputed points about Phantom right now is that he literally does NOTHING for a team. His role is to sneak behind enemy lines and scout, picking off lone-wolves, however he’s built completely wrong to do this. His recent reduction to visibility when moving slow is a good step in the right direction, but he could still use some work.

Hope this helps clarify things a little :3 Also, moving to the correct section ^.^

(Verticules) #4

I haven’t played him, but have always seen him as a high risk/reward merc, as are vas and red, making picks and off balancing combat.

On a different note, when I first started playing the game I assumed he was an Objective Expert. That might just given someone grounds for a new Phantom Suggestion Thread.

(Merci1ess) #5

Well when he first came out he was a strong merc. You needed to pay attention to sound and pay attention to your surroundings. Although he wasn’t a go-to merc when it came to competitive play. He just didn’t possess any useful abilities to help his teammates. But the fact that he could kill was too much to ask for the new players/players with not a good amount of know how. So they whined for a good 2-4 weeks until they got what they wanted.

http://puu.sh/jDMnB/4bb837eb68.jpg

It’s a tiny bit less brutal now then when the nerf first took place… I guess. Personally, he’s still shit to me. I can see him clear as day when he’s cloaked. There’s just not much of a point to use him over any other merc. It’s basically a merc with not much of an ability. He has a gun and that’s pretty much it. The Katana play has been butchered and his invisibility shield is not so invisible.

Edit: He was not notoriously overpowered. People who knew how to play quickly found a way to counter him and make him a very very average merc.

(XavienX) #6

Thing is, even though they buffed his invisibility, people who are experienced and aware can hear him from miles away and eventually find his slightly visible form, making the ability pretty much useless.

(Merci1ess) #7

It’s a pointless buff. He’s alot more invisible when moving slow. Who moves slow in a game like Dirty Bomb?

(Amerika) #8

He used to have the HP and shield and reach that allowed less experienced or caring people to melee rush player down from a long ways away. It pretty much enraged a huge portion of the community as witnessed on these forums, SD forums Reddit, websites and Steam reviews (which many people seem to be intentionally forgetting). He wasn’t considered OP in a competitive sense. He was simply considered cheap and awful to play against. Especially in a game that doesn’t have a deep melee system.

Some people just really enjoy playing melee only or being invisible so those are the ones who keep posting for a return to his previous form or some variation with full/near full invisibility. Compared to the posts that were around when Phantom was first released they are in the extreme minority.

(Verticules) #9

Maybe Execution will be his gamemode?

(DaaDog) #10

[quote=“VerticallyObese;18167”]Why does it seem that every other post is about Phantom? Did he use to fill a different niche in the game and now doesnt? Is he just the coolest merc, but people are frustrated they can’t do well using him? Or do people really think he is underpowered and are fearful for his viability in the game?

My questions for you guys are:

  1. Is his skill cap on the higher or lower side?
  2. Could future cross-class mercs open a spot for this merc in team composition?

I don’t play him, so my opinion wouldn’t matter, nor do I have one.[/quote]

This video pretty much covers everything, this was made on 25th aug after his nuke

(ProfPlump) #11

[quote=“VerticallyObese;18167”]Why does it seem that every other post is about Phantom? Did he use to fill a different niche in the game and now doesnt? Is he just the coolest merc, but people are frustrated they can’t do well using him? Or do people really think he is underpowered and are fearful for his viability in the game?

My questions for you guys are:

  1. Is his skill cap on the higher or lower side?
  2. Could future cross-class mercs open a spot for this merc in team composition?

I don’t play him, so my opinion wouldn’t matter, nor do I have one.[/quote]

Phantom needs to have that “EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE” sound removed whenever he’s cloaked - it’s so easy to hear him coming that the stealthiness granted to him by his cloak is completely irrelevant.

At the moment, his cloak only serves to A) make him slightly harder to aim at and B) give him a shield. That’s really not a very good design. He needs to be less tanky, faster and, most importantly, quieter.

Whenever I die to a Phantom, it’s not because he snuck up on me by using his cloak - I always see him coming and try to wear down his shield and health before he reaches me. That’s it! Nothing at all related to stealth…

(TheOrangePhantome) #12

Well @ProfPlump if you played against me you were gonna get shot from behind about 85% of the time the other times ill just run straight to you while flanking.

(ProfPlump) #13

But my point is that if you manage to get behind me it wouldn’t be due to Phantom’s sneakiness at all - you’d do much better at getting those flanks with a Redeye who can actually hide himself properly.

(TheOrangePhantome) #14

But my point is that if you manage to get behind me it wouldn’t be due to Phantom’s sneakiness at all - you’d do much better at getting those flanks with a Redeye who can actually hide himself properly.[/quote]

You have a point and yeah i do agree he needs that noise to be either completely removed or mad quieter cuz DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN it’s so loud.

(Amerika) #15

But my point is that if you manage to get behind me it wouldn’t be due to Phantom’s sneakiness at all - you’d do much better at getting those flanks with a Redeye who can actually hide himself properly.[/quote]

He gets the flanks he does because you can’t always hear him. I tend to start shooting before I get within range of people so they don’t hear the cloak. You can also flank because you can use your armor to take hits while getting into position so you aren’t sitting at 40% HP. You can also sit in cloak on a flank and not move and not be heard and let your HP build back up as well and if somebody passes by they can’t hear you/see you and you shoot them or let them keep going.

I’m not sure why people want to insist other classes are better at flanking. This is only true if you are trying to be melee only and rush people down with a Katana and give away your flank because of the sound. It’s not true if you shoot people from a distance on a flank. I flank with every single character. I’m rather good at surprising people. I do it best on Phantom because I know what he is capable of and I know what his limitations are.

(watsyurdeal) #16

[quote=“Amerika;87795”]
I’m not sure why people want to insist other classes are better at flanking. This is only true if you are trying to be melee only and rush people down with a Katana and give away your flank because of the sound. It’s not true if you shoot people from a distance on a flank. I flank with every single character. I’m rather good at surprising people. I do it best on Phantom because I know what he is capable of and I know what his limitations are.[/quote]

Personally it’s not so much that other classes are better, it’s just I could flank with other classes and have a more useful set of abilities. Plant Bombs faster, revive, Nades, Mines, etc.

(Amerika) #17

That’s the thing. They can do those things better at the cost of them not being able to flank better. Now I’ll agree with you that Phantom needs something else to be useful in competitive play but that’s totally different than trying to downplay his flanking ability compared to other mercs. He’s simply the best at it (IMO) regardless of whether or not he brings as much to the plate once he gets there.

On a side note I think Phantom does a pretty good job at being a ninja planter in pubs. Also, another fun thing to do is intentionally sprint around in an area where you know somebody is nearby but then stop and kneel. They will come charging out looking for you and 9 times out of 10 won’t notice you (10 out of 10 if you do it in the right spot) and then you shoot them in the back. It’s fantastic way to turn a negative into a positive :slight_smile:

(ProfPlump) #18

But my point is that if you manage to get behind me it wouldn’t be due to Phantom’s sneakiness at all - you’d do much better at getting those flanks with a Redeye who can actually hide himself properly.[/quote]

He gets the flanks he does because you can’t always hear him. I tend to start shooting before I get within range of people so they don’t hear the cloak. You can also flank because you can use your armor to take hits while getting into position so you aren’t sitting at 40% HP. You can also sit in cloak on a flank and not move and not be heard and let your HP build back up as well and if somebody passes by they can’t hear you/see you and you shoot them or let them keep going.

I’m not sure why people want to insist other classes are better at flanking. This is only true if you are trying to be melee only and rush people down with a Katana and give away your flank because of the sound. It’s not true if you shoot people from a distance on a flank. I flank with every single character. I’m rather good at surprising people. I do it best on Phantom because I know what he is capable of and I know what his limitations are.[/quote]

I see what you’re saying - but I still think it’s stupid that you could probably do more sneak attack melee damage with a Sparks with a Cricket Bat + Chopper Augment. I always find that if I use that loadout, I can run from behind, two hit someone with the bat, and if I get into trouble I have the speed advantage to escape, plus instant heals from the medpacks if I get hurt. She’s much better for that role in my opinion. Plus I find that because of Phantom’s slow speed he can sometimes end up running after his opponent for some time before he can make a swipe with his katana (before they even notice he’s there).

If you’re saying that Phantom shouldn’t rely on his Katana, then fair enough - the KEK is definitely just as viable. But it does seem weird to give Phantom a special melee weapon and then make the good old KEK-10 his most superior weapon. It’s the same with Redeye’s Kukri - I don’t know why they put that on a merc who really isn’t built for melee combat (he’s not fast enough either).