PC Game Balancing and 10 Reasons I'm frustrated


(Rhadamant) #1

The game platform is great, save for some design problems, but I want to address what could be done with the necvars and balancing the game out.

#1
SMG’s are too stable.
You can run around hip blasting people with relative ease with dual SMGs that both have drum barrels attached to the bottom and front grips in front. This is a “Spray and Pray” gamer’s wet dream. You rarely run out of ammo (with drum barrels), don’t miss (with front grips) and usually put so many bullets into your enemy so quickly that you win most firefights with very little skill involved.

Don’t get me wrong, I love doing this, it just doesn’t require skill.

#2
One Shot Kills
The game was not supposed to have any, and yet an un-buffed and un-upgraded character on medium body type can get 1 shot in the head, and light body types can get 1 shot in the head and chest … given that the enemy is using the right rifle and add ons.

#3
There are not enough objectives.
On most maps there is 1 primary objective and 1 or 2 secondary objectives. There is not much need for different classes when there are so few objectives to do. Most games become a Team Deathmatch firefight really quickly with complete disregard for the secondary objectives.

#4
The skill tree is … not a tree
On the engineer you have the two smaller turrets as pre-requisites for the Gatling turret. No other skills have pre-requisites. Therefore for 8 skill points you can have the rank 5 skill for each class and have 12 points left over. This makes it way to easy to ‘specialize’ in all 4 classes. In most skill trees about half of the skills are nearly or completely useless anyway. A rank 5 skill should require at least 4 or 5 points spent in the tree to unlock, otherwise I can run around as an Operative with EMP Grenades and still have 19 points left over.

#5
Turrets are a joke
Due to their super slow target acquisition time any half-decent player can out maneuver a turret. They cannot be repaired when damaged, they are fast to hack and really don’t pose a thread to anything but a mindless bot.

#6
Assault rifles are not worth using
See #1. Due to the fact that SMGs fire faster and are more stable and accurate there is no purpose to using Assault Rifles. Assault Rifles should be more effective than SMGs at a distance and should not be so unstable when firing in bursts with ACOG/RedDot

#7
Body Size Types
The advantage of a light body size doesn’t really seem to play a role. There is very little you can parkour around that other body types can’t. Being a light body type might save you 5 seconds to get to the front of the firefight, but because of your health penalty, you’ll die 10 seconds faster. Counter to this, being a heavy doesn’t give you enough bonus life to be worth running like the world’s slowest marathoner.

And on the flip side of this problem … if your team has the engineer upgraded health command post and you have the upgraded medic 2 pip health buff with upgraded kevlar … you could be a light body type blitzing around the map and have more health and damage resistance than the enemys’ heavies.

#8
Déjà vu
There are so few maps to play on… you feel like you are doing the same thing over and over and over and over … you see the point. I know they plan on the first DLC to be adding in maps but until them … this gets tedious.

#9
Gun Balance
Most of the weapons are not well balanced. Most players gravitate towards two weapons for the most part, Carb9 and Euston. I was looking forward to weapons having trade-offs like more magazine for longer reload, slower fire rate for more damage, unstable for high rate of fire, short range for damage, long range but slow, etc. Instead of using different weapons for different situations (like Grenade Launcher for clusters of players) you can just use your cookie cutter Carb9 that works in all situations. Too bad, because with 24 weapons only 3 or 4 gets used.

#9.5
& Gun Addons
Speaking of gun balance … I don’t really see the disadvantage to drum barrels. There seems to be no reason not to equip a drum barrel. So with that in mind, any gun that can handle a drum barrel will have a drum barrel. I don’t see any reason not to use front grips, so with that in mind every gun that can handle front grips will have them. Why give us a variety of add ons when only 2 of the add ons are ever worth using?

#10
MEDIC SCOREBOARD LEET HAX WINS
Playing an aggressive medic that actively revives, heals and kills causes the medic class to climb REALLY QUICKLY to the top of the scoreboard of any/every game. Medics gain way too many points for team actions. Revives are worth 175 points while arming a secondary objective is worth 100 or potentially 200. It takes a second to gain 175 points as a medic, but takes 45 seconds to gain 200 as a soldier. The same applies to hacking, repairing, etc.

Also … why don’t you show kill/death ratios on the scoreboard?

~==---------------------------------------------------==~
I was really looking forward to Brink and despite it being a great platform, it falls short on many fronts as a PC game. Maybe you designed, geared and catered to consoles a bit too much, but the PC game is rather flat, boring, unbalanced and un-re-playable. Also, as mentioned many times, I don’t see how it can ever become a competition game with the way it is now. #10 is This Post because I deeply regret ever having to write a post in the first place.

And with that said feel free to agree/disagree with me.

-Ben


(sirius89) #2

Have a look SD,this man is speakin the truth.
I’am not agreeing with point 4 but just because i don’t got any maxed character at the moment.

Fix these things and Brink is the best game ever when performance is also fixed. =D


(Kurnuttaja) #3

I agree about the assault rifles, the recoil makes them very unstable. On top of that the recoil is too much different as it is in other games: In other games recoil kicks the gun upwards at each shot, while in Brink recoil kicks the gun into random directions at random intervals so you can aswell just give up and spray’n’pray.


(Milk Lizard) #4

I agree with #'s 1, 3, 6, 8. But I still love playing this game, compared to some games, this is more balanced.


(iezza) #5

I think they should make the risk/reward. boost/negative whatevar effects of attachments much more great a grip fixes the drum mag onyl for equip speed penalty.
and i think they should fix recoil,(damage is fine for Carb9 IMo) so smgs have helluva lot and assault rifles less so, and make it so they kick upwards not randomly, random is fine for hip fire but up is the way for ADS


(Rhadamant) #6

[QUOTE=iezza;323438]I think they should make the risk/reward. boost/negative whatevar effects of attachments much more great a grip fixes the drum mag onyl for equip speed penalty.
and i think they should fix recoil,(damage is fine for Carb9 IMo) so smgs have helluva lot and assault rifles less so, and make it so they kick upwards not randomly, random is fine for hip fire but up is the way for ADS[/QUOTE]

I believe the risk/reward should be increased too. If you are using drum barrels it should take you awhile to bring your weapon our and awhile to reload. This isn’t the case. Anyone who plays with SMGs and Assault Rifles and who doesn’t use Drum Barrel + Front Grips is either stupid or crazy. That is just a silly game mechanic.


(iezza) #7

i use ductape mags on the tampa, i literally sometimes dont relise that im reloading its so fast, its like a 60 round mag without the drawbacks.


(Rhadamant) #8

But trying to shoot anything with the Tampa when they are over 30 feet away from you is like trying to kill someone with The Lobsta, it just won’t happen. Speaking of which those grenade launchers are hilariously useless.


(sirius89) #9

[QUOTE=iezza;323438]I think they should make the risk/reward. boost/negative whatevar effects of attachments much more great a grip fixes the drum mag onyl for equip speed penalty.
and i think they should fix recoil,(damage is fine for Carb9 IMo) so smgs have helluva lot and assault rifles less so, and make it so they kick upwards not randomly, random is fine for hip fire but up is the way for ADS[/QUOTE]

This x1000.

I actually don’t quite get why some developers make this into their own game.It’s THE WORST things to make for weapons in a shootergame.

Random Bullet Deviation SUCKS i can’t even say how much its sucks in any word.This “feature” takes pretty much EVERY skill away from a kill in a shooter.

That’s why BC2 kills have nothing to do with skill for me.
It’s just luck.Do i hit or not?Thats the big question.And in Bc2 it wasn’t even that crazy.Ever played BF2?Ridiculous amount of random deviation.

Quake 3 Arena kills have something to do with real skill or CS 1.6 but in Brink it’s atm just luck.


(SphereCow) #10

[QUOTE=Rhadamant;323419]The game platform is great, save for some design problems, but I want to address what could be done with the necvars and balancing the game out.

#1
SMG’s are too stable.
You can run around hip blasting people with relative ease with dual SMGs that both have drum barrels attached to the bottom. You rarely run out of ammo (with drum barrels), don’t miss (with front grips) and usually put so many bullets into your enemy so quickly that you win most firefights with very little skill involved.

Don’t get me wrong, I love doing this, it just doesn’t require skill.

#2
One Shot Kills
The game was not supposed to have any, and yet an un-buffed and un-upgraded character on medium body type can get 1 shot in the head, and light body types can get 1 shot in the head and chest … given that the enemy is using the right rifle and add ons.

#5
Turrets are a joke
Due to their super slow target acquisition time any half-decent player can out maneuver a turret. They cannot be repaired when damaged, they are fast to hack and really don’t pose a thread to anything but a mindless bot.

#6
Assault rifles are not worth using
See #1. Due to the fact that SMGs fire faster and are more stable and accurate there is no purpose to using Assault Rifles. Assault Rifles should be more effective than SMGs at a distance and should not be so unstable when firing in bursts with ACOG/RedDot

#7
Body Size Types
The advantage of a light body size doesn’t really seem to play a role. There is very little you can parkour around that other body types can’t. Being a light body type might save you 5 seconds to get to the front of the firefight, but because of your health penalty, you’ll die 10 seconds faster. Counter to this, being a heavy doesn’t give you enough bonus life to be worth running like the world’s slowest marathoner.

And on the flip side of this problem … if your team has the engineer upgraded health command post and you have the upgraded medic 2 pip health buff with upgraded kevlar … you could be a light body type blitzing around the map and have more health and damage resistance than the enemys’ heavies.

#9
Gun Balance
Most of the weapons are not well balanced. Most players gravitate towards two weapons for the most part, Carb9 and Euston. I was looking forward to weapons having trade-offs like more magazine for longer reload, slower fire rate for more damage, unstable for high rate of fire, short range for damage, long range but slow, etc. Instead of using different weapons for different situations (like Grenade Launcher for clusters of players) you can just use your cookie cutter Carb9 that works in all situations. Too bad, because with 24 weapons only 3 or 4 gets used.
[/QUOTE]

I disagree with these things. In any case, weapons should have a stat for how accurate they are while twitching, like ETQW did. ; [


(Rhadamant) #11

Well why do you disagree? There is actually a spreadsheet floating around somewhere of all the weapon statistics … I’ve seen it I just can’t place where it is exactly.


(amazinglarry) #12

I completely disagree with the fact that SMG’s are too stable means they’re a ‘Spray and Pray’ player’s wet dream. It’s not spray and pray, if you’re hitting what you’re actually looking at.

And that’s the exact reason I use accuracy buffs/add ons for my weapons… so I don’t have to use the annoying iron sights, and I use my own manual burst first, and HIT what I’m AIMING at.

This is the exact reason CoD pissed me off. People shooting at my legs were getting headshots on me, meanwhile I’d be aiming at their torso and head, and would be missing.

(Reason number 352 why ET was amazing)


(Rhadamant) #13

[QUOTE=AmazinGLarrY;323491]I completely disagree with the fact that SMG’s are too stable means they’re a ‘Spray and Pray’ player’s wet dream. It’s not spray and pray, if you’re hitting what you’re actually looking at.
[/QUOTE]

Fair enough, but then again with 60 - 70 bullets in my Drum Barrel Front Grip SMG … I could spray and pray with my eyes closed and chances are several of those bullets will graze your skull, if not almost all of them.


(Smokeskin) #14

[QUOTE=sirius89;323454]This x1000.

I actually don’t quite get why some developers make this into their own game.It’s THE WORST things to make for weapons in a shootergame.

Random Bullet Deviation SUCKS i can’t even say how much its sucks in any word.This “feature” takes pretty much EVERY skill away from a kill in a shooter.

That’s why BC2 kills have nothing to do with skill for me.
It’s just luck.Do i hit or not?Thats the big question.And in Bc2 it wasn’t even that crazy.Ever played BF2?Ridiculous amount of random deviation.

Quake 3 Arena kills have something to do with real skill or CS 1.6 but in Brink it’s atm just luck.[/QUOTE]

You should understand that there are other concerns than your headshot skill.

With precise weapons, good players can make consistent headshots, and things like range, cover and movement matter very little - the player will make headshots regardless, and this sucks out the relevance of most tactical concerns. With a large random deviation however, you can’t just headshot your way out of a bad tactical position.

Basically, large bullet spreads reward tactics, while laser precise weapons make tactics obsolete (ok, that’s a bit of an overstatement, but you get my point).


(Kendle) #15

Agree with most of it, for instance I agree that turrets are a joke but I’m damn glad they are, turrets are why I stopped playing ET:QW …

I’m a Light CARB-9 Medic and while I don’t find things that easy (the fact I suck at shooting doesn’t help) I would much rather use an AR (suits my style better), but it’s just not worth it as the CARB beats all ARs in most situations.

I’m not fussed about being a Light, as you say there’s not much benefit to it, but the game is too slow for my taste as it is, Light makes it bearable, and seeing as a lot of people have trouble aiming at moving targets it seems I find I actually fair better in firefights as a Light than I do Medium.

I’d really like to see the ARs improved, a lot, but tbh there are loads of other things I’d like addressed first, like the “F” key, red dot crosshair, customisable HUD etc.


(Rhadamant) #16

After reading all of the replies it seems that the vast majority of the people who replied agree with at least a few points I made. Now that Splash Damage have addressed a lot of the console problems as well as some performance issues with the PC, it is time for some balancing patches. I do hope they consider some of the changes I suggested, not because I want to be known as being outspoken, but because these changes have the potential to make this an unforgettable game, not just a TF2 knockoff.


(tokamak) #17

Yeah the downsides are negligible.


(kilL_888) #18

heres my honest opinion as an old(school) player, et fan…

#1 i think its great that they are that stable and that splash damage created a diversion from the assault rifles. smg’s are stable at close range, they are useless at larger distances. an assault rifle is also pretty accurate on short distance and does even do more damage, and they are effective at larger ranges. what i must say is that some smg’s need dmg nerfing, but i have the feeling the carb already got nerfed with the last patch.

#2 there are very few occasions with one shot kills. of course a shotgun blast in your face kills you. also a sniper in your face. buffed health, buffed weapon also play a role. so, basicly, i may be wrong, but its impossible to make a 1 shot kill when you dont hit the head and the gun that hit you is unbuffed. i think its fine as it is right now. i dont see a dilemma here.

#3 hm. cant really give a real answer to this cause i havent played all the maps long enough. some maps lack of objectives. for example the 2 what if missions. but i think thats intended. they almost play like team deathmatch maps. if a map is designed for few objectives, as it is right now, i dont see why this is generally negative. most maps have plenty (primary) objectives.

#4 hm… this still is a shooter. youre expecting a skilltree like in a rpg? i guess because of the fact that this is a shooter there cant be a real skilltree as complex as in a rpg. there wont be skills like, do 1/3/5% more damage and stuff. consider the skillsystem more like a skill system and not like a talent tree and youll be fine. :smiley:

#5 dont know about that. as a light the turrets annoy me pretty much, even kill me sometimes. they are an addition to the engineer and not a mirror of the gun the engineer is carrying. make em more powerful and you can consider them an additional immobile player and that would be really overpowered i think.

#6 see #1 … close range=assault rifle+smg / large distance=assault rifle

#7 havnt played a fatty. cant tell if they need buffing. light is fine imho. his speed gives you a pretty nice advantage in close firefights. you can easily slide into enemies, kill them on the ground, you can flee when theres too much trouble. health is fine too. yep. light is fine, imho.

#8 steam tells me i have a playing time of about 24 hours now and havent played all of the maps from beginning to end. i dont know any of the maps inside out yet. just today i found a route in shipyard i have never seen before. on top of that i almost always play medic. to play a map as a different role changes your playstyle completely. that was one of the great things of enemy territory. i knew all of the maps inside out but it never got bored to play them again and again with different classes.

#9 in short… yes, guns need permanent balancing. there are quite a few factors for each gun. its really hard to balance them and at the same time create enough diversion so that they dont feel all alike.

#10 i would lie if i say i dont look at the scoreboard. sure i like it to be on top when i play a medic, but its not really important to me. i dont compete with my team. i play with my team and make sure i am the best ****ing medic in the world. and when i am my team benefits from it. and thats the whole point about those class based team shooters.


(howie) #19

[QUOTE=Rhadamant;323419]#1
SMG’s are too stable.
You can run around hip blasting people with relative ease with dual SMGs that both have drum barrels attached to the bottom and front grips in front. This is a “Spray and Pray” gamer’s wet dream. You rarely run out of ammo (with drum barrels), don’t miss (with front grips) and usually put so many bullets into your enemy so quickly that you win most firefights with very little skill involved.[/QUOTE]

Running around firing from the hip requires far more skill than using ironsights. If two carb users bump into each other the victor will nearly always be the person with the best twitch aim and who can track a target the best, keeping his crosshair over their head. It was the same in RTCW and ET. The term ‘spray and prey’ is being bandied about far too much in regards to the smgs. It’s only people who can’t aim spray and prey.

I’d like the firing cone on most weapons reduced to even further rule out lucky headshots.

Keep Brink fast, keep it twitchy.


(Rhadamant) #20

[QUOTE=howie;323570]Running around firing from the hip requires far more skill than using ironsights. If two carb users bump into each other the victor will nearly always be the person with the best twitch aim and who can track a target the best, keeping his crosshair over their head. It was the same in RTCW and ET. The term ‘spray and prey’ is being bandied about far too much in regards to the smgs. It’s only people who can’t aim spray and prey.

I’d like the firing cone on most weapons reduced to even further rule out lucky headshots.

Keep Brink fast, keep it twitchy.[/QUOTE]

I’m not saying that hip fire shouldn’t require skill, I’m saying that the hip fire with CARB 9 is so powerful that its pretty much the only gun anyone will ever use. Give other guns a chance. Don’t you feel silly when 90% of the enemies you face are just hip firing CARB wielders? Is the CARB9 the AK47 of the ARC?