Patch Feedback

(Mustang) #41

Of course it’s not confirmed yet, but there have been strong hints publicly and even we’ve been told that if it’s feasible then it’ll happen.

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/34379-The-Down-and-Dirty-(Competitive-Checklist)?p=424563#post424563

(Violator) #42

[QUOTE=meat;480352]I like the 8v8 servers, and like Mustang said they are the servers with players on them.
Which means I am not the only one.
[/QUOTE]

This is true for LB (and TY to a lesser extent), but I think WL & WC are too small for 8v8.

(Zarlor) #43

I do agree with strychzilla that something feels a little off with hit registration, but the new movement speed and other changes help to keep the game fun. I appreciate seeing the spawn timer now, but I don’t really like or think the abilities icons are that intuitive. I still think there needs to be more excitement around the objectives themselves. I played last night with what I’d consider to be a dream team. BMXer was heading up one team, and chump the other. Classic F8 vs. hubris! There were a lot of fun firefights, but the objective didn’t feel front and center or where the excitement was. I really miss trickplants, or being able to finish off someone else’s plant. Also, I would really like to have the weapon sounds buffed up to some degree. They seem to lack a solid punch to them. That might also make things a little underwhelming. BF4 has kind of overdone it, but Extraction is a little too weak.

(Hundopercent) #44

Played some more and just a few things I noticed.

Soldiers:

Fragger is alright, for some reason I find his spread way more noticeable now then before. Removal of IS on his primary is weird especially since anything medium - long range is a waste of time to fire at. Not sure if this is intentional by design.

Thunder - Feels good. I’ve always liked and did well with Thunder not sure why.

Grenade Chick - Didn’t bother using since she’s a gimmick merc. I thought she was fine before but now I just run past her grenades and shank her face because she seems useless with the lower TTK.

Concerns:

Not enough ammo. Since in the games current state and refusal to fix spawn timers/objective placements to eliminate the meat grinder effect, I am always shooting and running out of ammo shortly after spawning.

If the intent for a soldier is to cover a specific area you have succeeded. They are too slow to chase and have too much HP to lose a 1v1. However, due to the nature of the game and lack of ability to multikill in a 2v1 situation you will still always lose, even if the combat situation is in your favor (CQC.) This has been an on-going issue since early alpha that I’m not sure will be addressed. Confirmation would be great.

Medics:

Sawbones - Not too much play time with him but his weapon did feel a lot better. I still find his med packs underwhelming and in a firefight he is not a medic. He is just an inferior merc shooting. Once combat is completed, he can revive and heal. If this is intentional by design let us know. I find it to be the opposite of teamwork because I would much rather have someone lob some hot sauce on the ground to assist me and not shoot a pellet gun.

Aura - I’m not touching any of the 75 hp classes because to me it’s a joke. I turned the corner a few times on Proxy and died before I could even react to the damage. For me, Aura is not my style, she’s nice to have next to me when she drops her healing totem but other than that, I would take Sawbonez any day.

Phoenix - Didn’t have time to tinker with him, no comment. I find him immediately inferior to Sawbonez since he can only heal every 10 seconds or so vs Sawbonez 3X when needed. I will check him out another time.

Concerns: Same as before. Revive mechanic needs work. Medics should be useful during combat. Not just after. What is the point of being effective after a battle has taken place? You had no effect on the out come other than firing your gun.

Lts:

Arty - I put most of my time into Arty. I enjoy his weapon a lot, however, as I have already said multiple times, the spread is far too high. I believe we have stated it quite clear that adding high spread/horizontal recoil to a weapon does not make it unique experience. It makes it a frustrating experience. In addition, it does not increase the skill ceiling because it is too random. It turns into a lottery weapon. I’m not sure how else we can explain this to you so you get the point but like other Major issues that are not being addressed; I will continue to yell at the wall.

BBQ - Still the best Lt without question. Solid primary, solid ability, ammo station is manageable.

Skyhammer - I lost patience while testing with 200 ping so I didn’t try him. I would honestly try more mercs if it was possible to switch in-game but since leaving the server to switch means you lose your spot I will be unable to test multiple mercs adequately. I assume since his weapon is similar to BBQ’s they are at the same balance point. I will test another time.

Concerns: The new recoil makes firing very weird, especially for this class. Long range shots don’t feel right, drop off in general doesn’t feel right, and I’ve come to the conclusion that again this is because of poor map design. The maps are small and tight. Nothing ever really feels like a long shot because nothing is long and open. It doesn’t look far away to me so why should I be doing less damage?

Engineers:

Rat - Having the old SMG back is nice. The new turret is annoying though. Locks on too fast, if you have high ping you will lose most of your health or potentially die prior to blowing it up. I’ve never been a fan of deployables and I’m still not a fan. Anyway, so far T-Rat is playable but I need to put more time into him for specifics.

Proxy - 75 hp lulz. Died more than I could test.

Soda Can - Nothing really changed for him so he still has the same problems of his weapon animations are too slow, the damage on his primary is too low for how slow it fires. Over all, proxy is probably still a better engineer.

Concerns: None that I can think of other than I’m not a fan of their primary’s. It’s at a point now where you either 1 shot or your dead. I don’t play an engineer enough to really go more indepth than that.

Snipers:

Vaseli - Didn’t test, ping is too high, and too many BBQ’s to adequately test, I would poke out into a double dink or so and be at 15% HP even if I landed a shot it may not have been a HS so I still lose that battle.

Aimee - 75 hp, lulz. Takes too long to kill someone, you are far better off using any other sniper.

Phantom - I regard him close to Vaseli, so if I test one I test the other. Overall my stance is still the same. It’s not worth it to snipe when the maps are so small and tight and autos can take you out so fast that you can’t even respond.

Concerns: None. This game was not designed with snipers in mind so they will not work well because of it. Fix your maps.

Over all I am left perplexed. I still don’t understand what direction this game is going.
Maps untouched (this is a MAJOR issue), strafing still doesn’t mean anything, now we have large recoil with large spread, making any fight that is not CQC completely random if you aim for the head. Spawn timer implemented is nice, but the spawn system is still abysmal. Hitboxes are still too small for my taste, hit registration/weapon feedback are still in pre-alpha stages. Noticeable mouse drag, continued deoptimization, running on low makes everything blurry and phased out at medium - long range. For the first time since joining, I am actually considering not playing until those major issues are addressed in some way. How can I test something and assist when I don’t know the end goal/objective and even if I did know, the core game mechanics are in such a terrible disarray any balancing feedback I give you now is pointless but those could (and I strongly suggest should) change.

All well, guess I’ll keep beating my single player steam games in hopes of a patch before the new year that will seriously address the REAL concerns that we bring up, brought up, reiterated in multiple lengthy discussions threads that have been further rehashed 5+ times.

If you couldn’t tell, yes I am a bit frustrated and yes you’re making me look like an ass when I keep trying to support this game and you keep showing why I shouldn’t. -_-

Edit: This is on Nexon forums too.

(Nail) #45

FPS is down by at least 35% for me on WC, barely getting 50 fps on empty server

(attack) #46

ok first of all still have heavy lag problems.today fps problems too.
i wonder like strychzilla what the point of an 75 hp class is.
to give a engi which is already the class which stand in the firefights and construct 75 hp is nonsense.
he will not even survive 2 seconds.i see already that engi will be not much seen on servers.
but what is rly frustrating is the fact that a full health proxy get killed by one bodyshot from a sniper.
that simply sucks.whats the point of a sniper which kills you with one shot too the body.

same for medic.whats the point of a 75 hp medic which have to risk his life to revive someone.
he dies before he got even one revive.

150 hp for soldier ? thats 2 times proxy.how should proxy win even a firefight.

the shotguns are now rly noobish.aim to head isnt rewarded,in closefight you kill with one bodyshot…

and why are there still the same mapbugs like the possibility on waterloo to enter the wall?

(Volcano) #47

[QUOTE=attack;480474]
why are there still the same mapbugs like the possibility on waterloo to enter the wall?[/QUOTE]

because the mapping issues i do for them is low priority, so cbf doing it for a while,seeing the same issues in the maps that ive reported 5 or more times before many months ago

(BomBaKlaK) #48

Maps is the issue n°1 !

(INF3RN0) #49

As much as people like to throw around the ideas that anything they die from is OP or anything they can’t get kills with is too weak, I have to strongly encourage some more consistent weapon/merc designs overall. The stuff being done with shotgun mercs is a prime example of taking the easy route. The method of balancing something like the shotgun is outputting really extreme results. You either have the ability to kill any player regardless of skill, or your dying constantly due to the highly situational circumstances. It just doesn’t allow for much flexibility or dependability, and there’s not much visible room for self improvement either.

Perhaps the stats show more consistency with these types of changes, but that’s completely overlooking what is actually happening. The shotgun should have been improved by implementing a more intuitive weapon design and making the increased movement of the merc feel like it was actually important. I know for a fact that almost every merc has the potential to be effective depending on the player using them, however that doesn’t change the fact that there’s huge discrepancies in merc learning/skill curves with sometimes overly situational effectiveness. The goal should be to achieve a more consistent functionality of weapons/mercs based on actual variables that players can actually control and master through practice. I also dislike having mercs with an over dependence on automated abilities, and would rather they be the means to an end or involve some effort to achieve a greater than normal outcome.

(Protekt1) #50

I think having a diverse cast of characters is going to necessarily make some easier to learn than others. Should still be monitored and controlled to whatever extent is possible though.

Regarding shotguns, I don’t like the fact that headshots are a non-factor now. You’re more likely to do max damage if you shoot center than towards the head now.

I still haven’t made my mind up on 75 hp. It does seem a bit too low. At the same time I don’t mind a lower hp character. Maybe snipers should be tweaked to do a little bit less body damage. On the other hand, the speed and jumping should be capable of making enemies shoot your knee caps for 25-50% less damage taken. Just crouch jump I guess.

(.FROST.) #51

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(.FROST.) #52

So you basically mean, on paper the mercs are kinda balanced, but when it comes to actual usage they vary quite greately in terms of learning curve. And, as a result of that, a merc in the hands of a skilled player can appear OP to others, whereas the same merc, due to his steep learning curve, may appear UP for someone of lesser skill?

Plus, to really have balanced mercs, players would’ve to draw from every aspect, of “their” specific merc, but that’s simply not possible in every case, or for everyone. At least that’s what I got out of your post.

(INF3RN0) #53

Well for me I always expected diversity to maintain a consistent level of challenge and required practice. There’s really no reason it shouldn’t or can’t tbh. It’s okay for a weapon/merc to feel like it’s easier to learn, but there should still be an equality amongst them as to what is actually possible at the highest level of play and how they perform at varying levels. Something like the current shotgun makes that completely impossible by design. And certain weapons empower lower skill players earlier on without requiring them to change anything they did originally. It should be a process of learning and practice overall, and not varying degrees of instant gratification and reward. That’s my big complaint.

(Protekt1) #54

Oh, definitely agree with you on that. Balance needs to be based on the highest level of play, always. And definitely there shouldn’t be a character that is too easy to learn, but I expect some to be easier than others. Pretty much 100% agree.

Can’t even rep again yet.

(.FROST.) #55

You can probably imagine, how much I hate to agree with you, but that’s basically what I’ve been saying in my last couple posts, in different threads. If you mindlessly miro-balance everything, just for the sake of a fair/even game, you’ll only succeed in balancing the fun out of a game.

And, as I’ve said before, you can’t balance the human factor; there will allways be people wich will make a certain character look OP, but as soon as you pick this char yourself, you’ll find out, hat they are neither “cheating”, nor exploiting anything. This particular char just fits their playing-style and maybe they are even thinking, that your char is OP; and so on. There’s no way to balance this subjective impressions out of a game and when you try to, you can only lose.

(INF3RN0) #56

[QUOTE=.FROST.;480506]So you basically mean, on paper the mercs are kinda balanced, but when it comes to actual usage they vary quite greately in terms of learning curve. And, as a result of that, a merc in the hands of a skilled player can appear OP to others, whereas the same merc, due to his steep learning curve, may appear UP for someone of lesser skill?

Plus, to really have balanced mercs, players would’ve to draw from every aspect, of “their” specific merc, but that’s simply not possible in every case, or for everyone. At least that’s what I got out of your post.[/QUOTE]

It goes both directions really. Some mercs are more difficult to use well than others and some mercs are simply easier to use right away. It doesn’t mean one is OP or UP because it can change drastically depending on who is using them. So in a perfect world you could say that most mercs were balanced, however that doesn’t mean it’s not a problem. The problem with the system is that certain mercs/weapons empower a weak player by design, where as in the past the MG soldier was a prime example of this. It never meant it was OP necessarily, but it definitely allowed for more consistent player performance without making them do anything differently. This is what is wrong imo, because players should be doing better with another merc due to their higher skill in another area and not simply because it offers more effortless reward.

(Smooth) #57

Some Mercs will be easier to pick-up and learn than others, the end goal though is that in the hands of a ‘top’ players that they are all equally feasible.

We’re still a very long way away from this, as we’re still implementing and need much more data to start balancing based on things like win percentages.

(Anti) #58

[QUOTE=Smooth;480521]Some Mercs will be easier to pick-up and learn than others, the end goal though is that in the hands of a ‘top’ players that they are all equally feasible.
[/QUOTE]

Just to be clear that means equally impactful on the matches outcome, not necessarily 100% equally effective in combat or perfectly matched in all circumstances. We can only make a game with a rich set of tactics and skill requirements if there is a scale to all things which cost/benefit moments exist for teams and players.

(Protekt1) #59

With the way things are going (with more unique characters) are you considering limiting the amount of any characters to a certain number per team like 1 nader per team, 1 of each per team, or even 1 of each per match (when there are more to choose from of course)?

(Anti) #60

We’d very much like to avoid hard limits and just get the balance right, that is the goal. We’ll see how close we get to achieving that and how we deal with it if we don’t.