Overall balancing suggestions for the Auto ARs, the BRs, the Dreiss, and the LMGs

(ProfPlump) #1

These are going to a LOT of changes at the same time, but try to look at all the suggestions in connection with each other, rather than individually.

Ideally what I’m trying to design are balance changes that would create more balance between the Auto ARs (M4/Timik), the Burst Rifles (BR-16/Stark) and the LMGs

What I think we need is:

  • a buff to the K-121 and MK46’s close range DPS (putting them up to about 132-135 DPS) but keep their damage at medium and long range the same as they are at the moment. That way the LMGs will be the best for close range pushing while the Burst Rifles will have the advantage at medium-long range.
  • an accuracy buff to the M4/Timik as well as a VERY small buff to their firerates (by about 2-3%). This would make them a bit stronger and more of a jack of all trades weapon (effective at close and medium range, but not the BEST at either ranges).
  • a NERF to the Burst Rifle’s close range DPS so that it is only JUST higher than the M4/Timik and JUST lower than the LMGs.
  • and range-extension for the Dreiss AR (so that the distance doesn’t effect the damage per bullet so greatly) and a very minor nerf to the RoF (about 10%). This would make the Driess the best weapon for medium-long range out of all the weapons EXCEPT for the snipers, of course, but would also be sub-par to all other weapons in close quarters (except the weak SMGs).

These changes would make each kind of gun play its own way:

  • Close range powerhouse, you want the MK46/K-121 LMGs OR if your merc is a fire support (such as Skyhammer/Stoker) you want the M4/Timik).
  • Medium range powerhouse WITH competancy in close range - you want the Burst Rifles.
  • Medium range powerhouse WITH competancy in long range - you want the Dreiss AR.
    (bear in mind that ‘competancy’ means that it’s good, but not the best)

If these changes were implemented, I believe that we would see a lot more variety of guns across all these mercs (Skyhammer, Arty, Stoker, Kira, Thunder, Fragger, and even Redeye), because right now it’s just “use whichever burst rifle you can”.

(Herr_Hanz) #2

good ideas overall. just needs an MK46 spread buff :slight_smile:

http://i.imgur.com/gafVxYd.png

(frostyvampire) #3

@Herr_Hanz
This is so cute c:

Yes please, I agree with everything there, burst guns are overused too much and the machine guns are really bad compared to what they are supposed to be.
Also I would like to see changes to similar weapons so they are not exactly the same.
Timik-47 should deal more damage per bullet and have a higher DPS than M4A1 at the cost of worse recoil, smaller clip size and less fire rate
BR-16 and AUG should be different too, idk what can be done though
FEL-IX needs a minor buff so it’s no longer considered a “bad MOA”, I think buffing MOA headshot damage to 160 and FEL-IX to 170 would be fair (both can insta gib Aura and Sparks and FEL-IX can also 1 shot kill Thunder) but they can do something else instead

(ProfPlump) #4

[quote=“FrostyVampire;191288”]@Herr_Hanz
This is so cute c:

Yes please, I agree with everything there, burst guns are overused too much and the machine guns are really bad compared to what they are supposed to be.
Also I would like to see changes to similar weapons so they are not exactly the same.
Timik-47 should deal more damage per bullet and have a higher DPS than M4A1 at the cost of worse recoil, smaller clip size and less fire rate
BR-16 and AUG should be different too, idk what can be done though
FEL-IX needs a minor buff so it’s no longer considered a “bad MOA”, I think buffing MOA headshot damage to 160 and FEL-IX to 170 would be fair (both can insta gib Aura and Sparks and FEL-IX can also 1 shot kill Thunder) but they can do something else instead
[/quote]

Honestly I think that the BR-16 and the Stark already ARE different enough. The Stark is amazing but has some pretty harsh vertical recoil which is not easy to counter if you want to hit 3 headshots at long range with one burst. Meanwhile the BR-16 has an easier-to-counter recoil pattern, but is much harder to land 3 consecutive hits with since the burst takes more time so you have to track your target for longer, with more consistency of aim.

(hoyes) #5

Lmgs already have very good dps at close range (130-135)but this is offset by poor headshot dps when you take their poor accuracies into consideration.Increase their accuracy.
Like what @FrostyVampire said the timik needs to be more damaging, less accurate,slower firing than the m4 but is more rewarding. The m4 is in no need of changes.
The stark is fine as it can’t be spammed so it actually requires skill. The br needs an accuracy decrease or s fire rate nerf .
The moa is fine as is. The fel-ix needs to do 80dmg on bodyshot so there is an actual statistical reason to use it over the moa .

(hoyes) #6

Oh and for the semi auto weapons they need to buff their accuracy so they are able to be consistent at hip fire.

(frostyvampire) #7

@Jokder
I actually think it needs to be MORE accurate but with a worse recoil.
So the first shot will be more accurate and it will be easier to hit the head but if you decide to spray it will be harder to control the recoil than with the M4.
And yeah the M4 needs no change

I think that the FEl-IX did 80 damage once but it was nerfed because bodyshooting requires almost no skill and it’s too overpowered that you can 1 shot Aura and Sparks without even aiming. And if they do it again people will say “MOA is a bad FEL-IX”, we want them to be balanced so 49% of the snipers use MOA, 49% use FEL-IX and 2% use PDP because they just got Vassili and that’s their only loadout card and they can’t aim

(Eox) #8

I can’t agree with the M4-Timik buff. The M4A1 was already one of the most used guns before the burst fire buff. Those seems good enough to me : decent stability, and higher range than SMGs. They’re already way accurate enough. Some players are so good with them, they are able to gun you down very quickly from the other side of Chapel.

MK46 and K-121 already have the DPS you have mentionned (respectively ~133 and ~135 DPS). They’re already above the average when it comes about DPS. They don’t need to have even more of it IMO. Here are my sources : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yYDiX77THpjA-hImu2eRLio-ayOvGnDEeorZgHAieVQ/edit#gid=490808091

At the end, the only thing I can totally virtually agree with is a burst fire nerf. They indeed feel superior to every other gun. But buffing back assault rifles, Dreiss and machine guns would create a bigger gap between SMG mercs (engineers and medics) and Supports/Assaults. I don’t think that making Assaults and Supports even more deadly than they actually are compared to Engineers and Medics is a good idea. I have to remind that in competition, Dirty Bomb’s metagame is mid-long ranged : you can somehow say that Assault Rifles have an advantage over SMGs. I’d myself pick a M4A1 over any SMG anytime.

(Herr_Hanz) #9

even though oneshotting 80 hp mercs would be awesome, it would be to OP. i think the best way to make a difference between MOA and FEL-IX is give the felix instagib, for at least 80 HP mercs, and maybe even 100 HP, and give the MOA jumpsniping. and give us the ability to choose which scope we use on our sniper.

@FrostyVampire

(ProfPlump) #10

[quote=“FrostyVampire;191356”]@Jokder
I actually think it needs to be MORE accurate but with a worse recoil.
So the first shot will be more accurate and it will be easier to hit the head but if you decide to spray it will be harder to control the recoil than with the M4.
And yeah the M4 needs no change

I think that the FEl-IX did 80 damage once but it was nerfed because bodyshooting requires almost no skill and it’s too overpowered that you can 1 shot Aura and Sparks without even aiming. And if they do it again people will say “MOA is a bad FEL-IX”, we want them to be balanced so 49% of the snipers use MOA, 49% use FEL-IX and 2% use PDP because they just got Vassili and that’s their only loadout card and they can’t aim[/quote]

Frosty I swear I haven’t seen a single post of yours that DIDN’T rip on the PDP-70… Lol

(ProfPlump) #11

I hope you’re not talking about the PDP… That gun should NOT be given any hipfire accuracy.

(hoyes) #12

@ProfPlump I dare not speak of the pdp . Vile weapon.

(JJMAJR) #13

I think that the burstfire weapons getting a nerf would make the Dreiss not need any further changes. Increased range, yes please. Reduced firerate? Hell no.

(ProfPlump) #14

I just think that it shouldn’t rely on its firerate to do well - it should rely on accuracy instead of spam fire. Currently while you’re spam firing to reach that high DPS, the spread goes to shit after the first few bullets. Plus, if you use ADS to continue that spamfire without spread, the gun’s visual recoil animation blocks your target so much that it’s hard to track your target properly.

If the gun had higher damage (in medium/long range) and a lower firerate, then this spam-fire tactic would be less present - people would be more rewarded for precise aiming.

Plus, the changes I suggested would also make the gun better for its medium-long range purpose and less of a close-range spam machine that is basically a worse version of the BR-16/Stark.

(frostyvampire) #15

[quote=“ProfPlump;191420”][quote=“FrostyVampire;191356”]@Jokder
I actually think it needs to be MORE accurate but with a worse recoil.
So the first shot will be more accurate and it will be easier to hit the head but if you decide to spray it will be harder to control the recoil than with the M4.
And yeah the M4 needs no change

I think that the FEl-IX did 80 damage once but it was nerfed because bodyshooting requires almost no skill and it’s too overpowered that you can 1 shot Aura and Sparks without even aiming. And if they do it again people will say “MOA is a bad FEL-IX”, we want them to be balanced so 49% of the snipers use MOA, 49% use FEL-IX and 2% use PDP because they just got Vassili and that’s their only loadout card and they can’t aim[/quote]

Frosty I swear I haven’t seen a single post of yours that DIDN’T rip on the PDP-70… Lol[/quote]

Guess I hate this weapon a bit too much :3

(ProfPlump) #16

[quote=“FrostyVampire;191662”][quote=“ProfPlump;191420”][quote=“FrostyVampire;191356”]@Jokder
I actually think it needs to be MORE accurate but with a worse recoil.
So the first shot will be more accurate and it will be easier to hit the head but if you decide to spray it will be harder to control the recoil than with the M4.
And yeah the M4 needs no change

I think that the FEl-IX did 80 damage once but it was nerfed because bodyshooting requires almost no skill and it’s too overpowered that you can 1 shot Aura and Sparks without even aiming. And if they do it again people will say “MOA is a bad FEL-IX”, we want them to be balanced so 49% of the snipers use MOA, 49% use FEL-IX and 2% use PDP because they just got Vassili and that’s their only loadout card and they can’t aim[/quote]

Frosty I swear I haven’t seen a single post of yours that DIDN’T rip on the PDP-70… Lol[/quote]

Guess I hate this weapon a bit too much :3 [/quote]

Just out of interest - do you main Sparks? And is THAT why you hate the PDP so much?

(JJMAJR) #17

I just think that it shouldn’t rely on its firerate to do well - it should rely on accuracy instead of spam fire. Currently while you’re spam firing to reach that high DPS, the spread goes to @$!# after the first few bullets. Plus, if you use ADS to continue that spamfire without spread, the gun’s visual recoil animation blocks your target so much that it’s hard to track your target properly.

If the gun had higher damage (in medium/long range) and a lower firerate, then this spam-fire tactic would be less present - people would be more rewarded for precise aiming.

Plus, the changes I suggested would also make the gun better for its medium-long range purpose and less of a close-range spam machine that is basically a worse version of the BR-16/Stark.[/quote]

I would like to have my Dreiss be akin to playing with pistols back in Ballistic F2P. Having that experience with pistols makes me not want to have that taken away.

When I fire pistols, I could reach around 6 bullets per second. Pistols in Ballistic are fairly accurate but at the same time are nothing compared to an automatic.

I want to be able to play with a semiautomatic that is, you know, not shit, and able to fulfill my needs. Having the Dreiss get less firerate might as well make it worse than or the same as the Grandeur.