Organization for an ET/RTCW2 mapping site

(Ifurita) #1

The WWGN site will be getting an overhaul in the near future to make it more of a ET (and RTCW2 when it comes around) mapping resource. I was looking for ideas and thoughts on how to make it useful for people, based on what you are looking for and general level of experience. We already have a pretty good group in the IRC channel where ideas can be discussed, people can get help, etc.

I was thinking of the following: (in my mind, this is how I group and organize things)

I. Tutorials
A. Getting Started

  • Mappers curriculum (done)
  • Basic stuff (e.g., room construction, adding hallways, the first compile) - lots of this stuff already on Surface

B. Advanced Mappers

  • Objectives
    a. Dyno
    b. Returnable objectives
    c. Capturable flags
  • Script_movers
    a. simple doors
    b. Rotational item
  • Vehicles (though I wouldn’t be the one to do this)
  • Embedding buildings into terrain, etc (done)
  • Putting together your PK3 (done)
  • Scripting overview (done)
  • Fixing up your limbo screens (done)

C. Putting some zip in your map

  • Custom CM icons (done)
  • Alpha textures
  • Adding dummies icons to show completed/failed status

D. Other, may also be titled ‘Articles’

  • Collaborating with other mappers
  • Making a map for someone, setting expectations
    etc
  • Marketing maps
  • Testing maps

II. Prefabs

  • Model prefabs (meaning models, clips, scripts, tags, etc)
  • Objective prefabs (map in a box, sample constructibles, chained objectives, etc)
  • Map details
    == Generators and power things
    == Shelving, crates, etc
    == Ladders and bridges
    == Trains (done)
    == Prototyping tools (done)
    == Ordnance (V2 prefabs, nebelwerfer, etc) (done)
    == Buildings and bunkers
    == Assorted table and furnishings (desks, map tables, bar set, etc)
    == Blank signs (done)

III. Example maps

  • I know I’ll post up the sources for all of the maps I’ve done

IV. Links (to sites that have helped the people at WWGN)

  • links back to the stickies here
  • WolfensteinX/surface

Thoughts? I’m less interested in forums, because I think most people come here or to an IRC channel.

(WeblionX) #2

How about merging with Surface and make it a lot easier on yourself. Plus, I like their layout. ;x

(Get_It) #3

Why don’t you use MediaWiki software? It would be more easy to everyone to create tutorials.
I’m not saying it to be a open resource, where everyone can edit, but using that software would be more easy then developing a new and better website.

(DG) #4
  • testing your map (incl. dealing with ‘feedback’)
  • marketing your map.

I’d be happy to scribble some sort of notes about marketing maps, from a newsposter/player POV, if you’d find them useful. I’m sure I’ve ranted about it in this forum before. edit - here.

(Ifurita) #5

Yeah, definately need to get those 2 articles in. If you want, I’ll collaborate with you on those maps, because I’ve got a lot of points from the mapper perspective. Track me down in #etnation

(Dunkie_XL) #6

Downloads maybe?? :smiley:

(Ifurita) #7

I’m not a big proponent of downloads except those that are specific to helping mappers learn (e.g., tutorials, prefabs, example .maps). There are other sites (e.g., pcgamemods, etmaps.de) which have a much more complete offering of maps than I would ever want to host and letting people download terabytes of stuff does little to help mappers.

(Dunkie_XL) #8

ow ok worth trying :stuck_out_tongue: but its a good plan making a site for editors shall there be a forum?? :clap:

(Ifurita) #9

Nope, because map-center, splashdamage, and surface already have better forums for solving problems than I could put together on my own. Why further dilute the community?

(omega_q2) #10

I can’t wait. What’s the url of it, or is it not up yet? Sorry if I sound like an idiot, but what’s WWGN mean? Are you talking about the site in your sig?

Edit: never mind. I found WWGN.

I may be interested in making tutorials for your site. Also, I think pure HTML design would be better than postnuke for your site (if that’s what you mean by overhaul). MediaWiki sounds good. Also, if you could add different sections in the FAQ, it would probably be more beneficial. Like, “what is mapping?” and “what is caulk hulling?” don’t exactly belong together :slight_smile:

(Ifurita) #11

We’re/I am reorganizing both. We’re trying to layout resources and assets for the WWGN site and I will also be reorganizing the content on my site. What tutorials are you interested in doing?

(carnage) #12

in you tutorials section you have all the standard tutorails but i have never come across and dont belive there are AFAIK tutorals actualy teaching you how to map well

what i mean is there are tutorais with the inforamtion about how to do mapping placing entites walls etc but none that teach you the sort of art of mapping

I think this is the step needed to get more people into the mapping scene, look at photoshop tutorails for example. lots of quick tutorials about how to create fire text or plasma backgrounds stuff like that

in ET you would get tutorails on how to place a light entity, why not tutorials on how to create atmospheric underground lighting or how to create a clasic looking table

it would be nice to have all mapper subming there own little tutorals so we can all try out each other techniques

EDIT/ for more of an idea of what i mean, try imagine this site but with tutoraisl related to mapping like creating a bombed out house etc http://www.good-tutorials.com/

(Ifurita) #13

Feel free to contribute any tutorials.

Based on what I see asked in the forums, the questions are oriented more on core mapping skills than the next level ‘art of mapping’ questions. On the WWGN site and posted here, we have started a series of articles that are focused on the technical aspects of how the engine processes maps as well as articles on some of hte softer skills (testing and marketing).

(omega_q2) #14

I’m not so creative, but I am extremely logical being a programmer, so it would be easy for me to make technical tutorials…or helpful applications for that matter. If I was creative, I could probably make a map in a week but that’s why it takes so long. The only problem I see with your idea, carnage, is that mappers need to be creative, not leach off of other people’s ideas unless they have a horrible time. In other words, it would be good to encourage mappers to create their own ideas before copying others’. Sometimes I wish to hell there were some “art of mapping” tutorials, but at the same time, I’m glad I created something of my own and not someone else’s. And I think it should stay that way.

That being said, I would still like to create tutorials for Wolfenstein, not just guides on using “the Quake 3 engine” to make your dream become a reality. Not the same old crap like how to make arches etc. How about, “how to make” … uhh… whatever you call that big arch-like door blown by the tank in fueldump (complete with special effects of course). (Something generic that’s not exactly creative and thus not considered being leached off of.) Phew. That’s a mouthful. :bash:

But I’m not going to go as far as spoon-feeding people ideas. I apologize if I misunderstood your post carnage. Maybe you were trying to say exactly what I am.

Ifurita: I don’t know what tutorials to make. Anything you need, in particular, that I could cook up pretty fast?

Maybe you should have some tutorials on creating command maps, etc., because I have no idea how that “works”, so to speak, and I’m sure other people are in the same boat.

(carnage) #15

the questions are oriented more on core mapping skills

this is definatly true, but i think its because it has kind of become unaceptable to ask about the art behind mapping as all question seem to be orientated to the tenical aspects

mappers need to be creative, not leach off of other people’s ideas

expalin prefabs then? if the tutorial was tp create a clasic looking interior it could be adapted and doestn mean that everyone will folow to tutorials to the letter. They would uses the parts they like and moddify others and aply there own choice of textures. so by the end it will be a new take on the idea

i think these tutorials are important, as when many start mapping (i found this) that when they want to create things like walls they just found a nice texture and made a flat wall, ok kinda worked but by god it kinda looked q1 by the end of it

also tutoraisl on how to create things like 1940 brits lampost would be more creative, it could easily be sent as a prefabe amd stuffed into a map, but if the mapper when though how it was made and the toolz skill involved then they would be learning, they would get a chance to look at the logic of how it was created and give then a chance to add there own twist to it

i think these kind of tutorials are just what is needed, they will help devlop mappers from radent user to radient artist and we could see a masive increase in the beauty of cutom maps

(Ifurita) #16

I don’t see where asking about the ‘art of mapping’ is unacceptable. I think it’s more a case of shortage of experience/lack of interest which causes such questions to not be answered

Writing good tutorials is a skill in short supply all by itself. Not all of your ‘good’ mappers can turn out equally ‘good’ tutorials

Reward vs effort. 1. The interesting is such things as a 1940 brits lamp post is probably small (my guess). 2. Given the interest is small, who would want to be the one to invest time researching, writing, and proofing an article that no one will read. As a result, people write tutorials for the mainstream, e.g., how to make walls, how to make caves, etc.

However, that being said, people do create simple prefabs of things they’ve made, offer them to the public, and people do look at how they’re constructed, at least I do.

In any case, I’m not arguing the point that such resources as you mention wouldn’t help the community, it’s a matter of people who would be willing to put the time in to making them.

(omega_q2) #17

To answer the point about prefabs…well I don’t like them. I think prefabs should just be…maybe a textured door and nothing more. It may be fine for people that have never touched Radiant before and just wnat to throw something together to see how it works. Put it in the beginner’s section. It really depends on how it all turns out. If we see maps released that are truly rip-offs then it’s a bad idea. If we see more quality custom maps that just use an idea or two from other maps but play excellent and include credits for the other maps’ authors, I think it would be a great idea. But I’m a pessimist and can’t predict the future.

For a final map I don’t think using “big” prefabs is a good idea. I think prefabs need to be no more than a time-saver. A command post prefab would be the ideal example. Since you have to create clip brushes, models, etc. it’s more a waste of your time. Is it infringing on others’ ideas though? No, so I think it’s a happy medium.

Yeah I don’t see creating specific things as being worth time. Here’s some prefabs that would do no more than save time and frustration:

  • command post
  • tank/truck with splines
  • simple destroyable objective template (replace one of the brushes with the actual thing, and boom, you have your objective ready)
  • a generic table with chairs (a la mp_beach)
  • health/ammo cabinets
  • “instant” spawn point (all the entities needed to generate a spawn point)

along with sections of script code

So whenever you need to add a command post, you just tell Radiant to load c:\prefabs\commandpost.map and voila. I think that’s a good time saver, and there will definitely be a need for it.

(carnage) #18

omega you list of aceptable prefabs by your standards are things that tutorals are writen on, comand post etc. If we started delivening everything as a prefab there would be no need to even read the tutorals on tenical aspects are it would be a copy and paste job

but this is the same reason i would rather see tutorals on the art of mapping over prefabs decorations. cos people dont learn from it… if they made there own comand psot they would no how it worked and be able to do all kinds of crazy cusotm things… same with prefabs

Ifurita you have good points that there is a lack of good tutoral writers, and a lack of interest in the art of mapping… but i think this is because it has not been explored… if you wanted to make a comnd post then you can find a tutorail… i want to make a contemporty art wall you wont find a tutorail

i think that if ppl start wrting these tutorals they will get interest, and then more ppl will start doing them and in turn writng there own tutorials… its just that inital interest thats missing… we just need a site that will hose them all so people can find them easily

(omega_q2) #19

carnage: if you’re saying “write tutorials based on what works well” then I couldn’t agree more.

well here’s what I think tutorials should be written on:

how to create a circular stair case (a la RTCW)
how to create a water pump (a la ET)

… I’ll think of some more later

But not necessarily…“how to create a missile launch site” or anything to that extent. You see what I’m sayin’?

(Fusen) #20

www.rtcw2.com \o/