I do not think that the entry level change is necessary when you have a decent matchmaking.
I mean you have so much stats that are available on each player. Like accuracy with weapons shots fired nerds used. It should be more that possible to build an algorithm with that that is truly skill based.
And if that can’t produce a match than you can still go for pure level and rank based matches.
You could also let the matchmaking like it is to get the people for a match and do the team distribution based on skills
Whatever you do just improve the matchmaking balance and everyone will be happy
As said in another thread, “RNG has now reached ranked play” … Totally true.
100% against the update. I’m not against what they’ve done or the way they’ve implemented it, my problem is that they still call it ranked. It’s not ranked. You’re matched with randoms and it’s total luck whether you get paired with good players or terrible players. 90% of the people do not use voice communication, there is almost no team tactics, and many people are not willing to change their class to fill a needed role in the team. It’s no different to public servers, except you’re playing for double XP in a 5v5 situation instead of 6v6 or more. That’s all it is.
It’s competitive for crying out loud. Losing to pre-made 5’s should be a thing. Should we ban the All Blacks from playing rugby as a team? People are getting really sick of losing to them. How about the Australian cricket team? They win quite a lot too, maybe they should be split up as well. I think we should just banish all teams from every sport and when someone decides there should be a match we’ll just field together random people from any country and make them play together. Because that is totally logical, right? I mean no one wants to lose and everyone should have a fair chance so we’ll just give everyone a medal for participation. We’re all winners!
As I said, I have no problem with this update as such. I have a problem with the way it’s taken over ranked. If they want to introduce a double XP 5v5 public mode in public servers, fine go ahead. I actually think that would be better than the 6v6/7v7/8v8 (especially 7 and 8) pub servers. But this should never have been a part of ranked and I’ll argue that to my grave. It’s a complete joke to any form of competitive e-sports.
[quote=“rancid;156960”]As said in another thread, “RNG has now reached ranked play” … Totally true.
100% against the update. I’m not against what they’ve done or the way they’ve implemented it, my problem is that they still call it ranked. It’s not ranked. You’re matched with randoms and it’s total luck whether you get paired with good players or terrible players. 90% of the people do not use voice communication, there is almost no team tactics, and many people are not willing to change their class to fill a needed role in the team. It’s no different to public servers, except you’re playing for double XP in a 5v5 situation instead of 6v6 or more. That’s all it is.
It’s competitive for crying out loud. Losing to pre-made 5’s should be a thing. Should we ban the All Blacks from playing rugby as a team? People are getting really sick of losing to them. How about the Australian cricket team? They win quite a lot too, maybe they should be split up as well. I think we should just banish all teams from every sport and when someone decides there should be a match we’ll just field together random people from any country and make them play together. Because that is totally logical, right? I mean no one wants to lose and everyone should have a fair chance so we’ll just give everyone a medal for participation. We’re all winners!
As I said, I have no problem with this update as such. I have a problem with the way it was implemented and the way it’s taken over ranked. If they want to introduce a double XP 5v5 public mode in public servers, fine go ahead. I actually think that would be better than the 6v6/7v7/8v8 (especially 7 and 8) pub servers. But this should never have been a part of ranked and I’ll argue that to my grave. It’s a complete joke to any form of competitive e-sports. [/quote]
Completely agreed. The other day me and a friend duoqueued and got a guy who went melee only and called the surrender vote every time the cooldown passed, we still won, but it’s just stupid how that guy gets carried, is awarded as much Elo as the rest of the team and probably went to talk to some friends about how he just did some “epikkk trolling with the cricket bat and still won ecksdee ecksdee”. It brings memories of a game where I queued with a group of 4 and got a random that exclusively dropped ammo packs and refused to shoot enemies. The only way you can be sure that you won’t get such cases is to invite people you can trust to play with you and thus eliminate the RNG, making it actually, you know, competitive.
Plus, PUGs are a thing, people could always just use the DBN teamspeak or the Dirty Bomb Discord channel to round up 10 players and then you can have a manually-balanced 5vs5 with FF on if you didn’t want to venture into MM and risk getting matched against a 5 man party.
But the thing is @rancid , ranked =/= competitive. You’re right in a sense that ranked is basically pub 5v5, and that is how it should be too. A stepping stone from public to more organized, competitive plays. Interphase. In between. Introduction. Not the competitive itself yet. It isn’t supposed to be that, and it definitely was not that before this update either.
Let’s look it in the light of your sport metaphor then. You portrayed ranked as tournament, where we suddenly banish all teams from and put randoms against instead. Non, I would rather compare ranked to field practices where team plays against each other or some other groups just to warm up. Even in rather random set-ups. In tournaments they play against other organized teams, not setups consisting of people complete strangers to each other.
How this said practice can be made better however IS indeed adding option to have 5 person premades fight against other 5 premades. But for real, who can stand straight and say having 5 cobalt levels with full communication and knowledge of each others playstyle put against, even if same skill level but complete strangers to each other, team of solo/duo randoms, can be called competitive in any sense. It’s like putting that All Blacks rugby team against “team” put together from people all over Scandinavia, with only requirement of “have you ever played rubgy under coaching?”
Real competitive happens in tournaments and such, where things are more strictly supervised overall from the brackets to operative in-game stuff like refereeing and admining. Ranked can achieve balanced, quality games too but the environment itself lacks organization required to be called truly competitive setting.
This is, judging from developer responses in streams and Discord, an attempt to step towards having more organized matches (scrimming etc.) provided from game’s official routes instead of only having volunteer peeps at DBN and such working their arses off. Getting randoms vs randoms mode work first, which is the best lower threshold place to begin getting used to competitive rules and mechanics. Arguable, that making 5v5 as everyone’s go-to pub games could work too, I wouldn’t personally mind but change would be huge and take time.
I can only attempt to imagine your frustration as AUS/Asia region player though, due to bluntly put idiotic removal of ranked servers, and also kind of coughing start of proper tournaments (issues falling down on lack of practice options as far as I can figure). So I feel you on this one, albeit I cannot agree in the slightest in some of your statements.
This literally implies that forcing the MM to be randoms vs randoms is somehow more competitive than there being matches between properly organized teams. Sure there could be better ways to go on about MM, but completely taking away any sense of teamplay and turning it into a pure RNG fest is certainly not the best way to go on about it.
They could simply have new min level 10 servers which are 5vs5 with FF on, or people could just go and play a PUG over at DBN if you want to see a “scrambled teams” 5v5 with FF on.
E: Guess I better put this at the starters since none of ya’ll read these fully anyway. Not judging.
TL;DC: Ranked is not competitive (again.) and by design will never be. Premade vs premade should be introduced as it’s own que. Peeps need to bloody learn to co-operate, or get bombed into lower ranks if not. FF 5v5 servers also on drop-in-drop-out casual environment instead of just ranked sounds like a great addition. PUGs & scrims are still there for more organized games, thanks for remembering!
This literally implies that forcing the MM to be randoms vs randoms is somehow more competitive than there being matches between properly organized teams. Sure there could be better ways to go on about MM, but completely taking away any sense of teamplay and turning it into a pure RNG fest is certainly not the best way to go on about it.
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I fail to see how stating randoms vs. organized premade team being not competitive at the same time says randoms vs randoms is competitive either? I may of have put it in rather chaotic way so allow me to rephrase myself: Putting premade 5 man team used to play as group, against team of solo or duo randoms not used to play in that specific group, is competitive… how? However I’ve never disagreed on that premades vs premades could potentially have very enjoyable matches, more to the competitive feel even. I agree greatly on that this should be added as it’s own, separate que.
Taking away any sense of teamplay? Teamplay starts from within, not something external implementations give or take off (unless stuff like VOIP is banished). I’ve done my part trying to communicate while solo/duoing. Despite being rather silent, surprisingly many have done as I’ve asked or joined me in a easy-to-follow spontaneous strategy attempt (like you 2 take that side and we 3 take this, so we can crossfire the enemy). All teamwork doesn’t include VOIP though, but you should get the point.
When there are obviously people however who’re not able or willing to assess the situations at hand and don’t play as a team, rating system should be made so that they sure stay in the lowest ranks, not bothering people who actually co-operate. Again, rating issue, not directly solo/duoque issue.
[quote=“Dawnrazor;157204”]
They could simply have new min level 10 servers which are 5vs5 with FF on, or people could just go and play a PUG over at DBN if you want to see a “scrambled teams” 5v5 with FF on.[/quote]
Why this seems a very nice addition with the solo/duo separation from premade que, we agree on something! We do need to make more people interested in how the game is “ment” to be played, 5v5 and FF on.
However, since quite a many people also seem to be fond of incentives to play, they should be let to have chance for that too in ranked for the virtual goodies. So it’d work as an addition surely, but not as a replacement in my opinion. Or would you rather have anyone without 4 other players to be banished from ranked?
And nice that you brought into the discussion PUGs too, since not only those, DBN (and Discord) offers channel for magnificently arranging more organized, even rather balanced premades vs. premades matches for the more competitive side of community, while waiting to see if SD manages to scratch up a more official scrim system into place ^^ Who would want to bash strangers for easy wins when you can actually grab a challenge?
Like I said, I’d be fine with changing the way it was either by implementing 5man queues only as a separate mode or doing something like searching for 5minutes then expanding to match whoever (and warning the players still in queue that they could get a game vs a premade of more than 2), or any other suggestions one might have. What I’m not OK with is taking away premades entirely and turning ranked into pure RNG. And people pretending that MM was exclusively premades stomping solos earlier are clearly wrong, plenty of matches were premade vs premade, the very last game I played the day before the season reset was on a premade against another one, and the simple fact that games like this existed already makes the old MM vastly superior to the new version.
There is no “teamplay” involved when you have someone that stays Vassili the whole game, refuses to switch to any other merc when requested and drops less than 10 kills by the end of a 30 minute match. How is this “ranked” matchmaking any accurate when you can have people who do terrible but get carried or do well but lose due to bad team mates? It’s impossible to take the current state of ranked seriously as far as its intended purpose goes, the only enjoyment I get out of it is playing to practice killing 5 people every 25 seconds.
