Open Community Letter regarding the CW update

[CCP1151]

Ok well obviously it’ll be hard addressing all your concerns, so here’s another wall of text.
Merry Christmas!

[quote=“Lumi;104490”]@CCP115

[/quote]

Excellent points there, I will go over them and see if I can squeeze some in.

[quote=“Faraleth;104501”]
[/quote]

I get what you’re trying to say, but I indeed had about 10 tabs open all the time I was writing this, and your survey was one of them. I will admit that the burst rifle part was the hardest part to write about, and I’m pretty sure I will need to revise that, but I did look at the percentages, and as Blackers points out, 55% did not like these changes, with 30% wanting a revert. 30% is a big chunk, especially considering how many options we had.
Also 5.5% loving this change? To each their own, but really, LOVE? A bit of a stretch, If I may.

And I won’t change the name of the letter because the whole point of it being called “Open” and “community” is because of what I’m doing right now, and that is sieving through the replies and making sure that any concerns and input gets added in. This a change for the community to all come together and tell the devs the general feel and reaction to changes. And yea, I wrote the base, and it has got my bias in it, but as I do this more and more I hope it gets more and more neutral. I do plan for this to be a more common ocurrence, as long as future updates aren’t perfect. If they are, then SD doesn’t need these things anymore, and we can all go talk about other things.

[quote=“BlackFro;104608”][quote=“B. Montiel;104506”]

[/quote][/quote]

I won’t say it’s overly large, because to be honest, learning a map takes time.

But I will say some pointers wouldn’t hurt. TF2 goes bonkers with these, putting arrows and signs everywhere, but guess what? It works. It fits with the artstyle, isn’t overly invasive, and helps to keep a game flowing. TF2 also doesn’t have a minimap, so the fact Valve can make maps and have players instantly get the feel of it is very impressive.

So yea SD, go chuck some arrows and stuff into Dome.

To all the people talking about Dome…

We on the forums, I would assume, are all fairly familiar with this map. But again, we gotta criticise the size and lack of visual communication because of the new players. Who’s gonna tell them where to go and where to defend?

It is true you can only tell someone so much, but we should at least try to tell them as much as possible before they run off and get themselves killed.

Also I love Dome, Dome is , Dome is lyfe.

Some more great points, I’ll chuck em in as well. Lumi, you’re on a roll.

[quote=“HoopleDoople;104672”]Let me add a few points:
[/quote]

I will let you add some points. I didn’t read it in all it’s entirety, but so far so good, some great points there HoopleDoople.

[quote=“kibloy;104533”]1. Write huge wall of text full of things you want to see changed
2. Call it Open Community Letter
3. ???
4. Profit[/quote]

Trust me, if it was that easy to make money, I would join every forum on earth and ramble for ages.
But I get no cash dollar out of this.
And if you want to continue to complain in the future, that’s ok, but at least specify what you want changed. I mean, I try to make it non biased, but it’s pretty hard.

[CCP1151]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;104554”]Imo, Dome is the best map so far, we NEED more maps like that.

@Lumi

What the hell are you talking about? That exact same logic can be used with Aura. Just because bad players don’t know how to play Medic doesn’t mean giving one away was a bad idea.

If anything it brought both new players and people who quit, back to the game. It was a good move in my book.[/quote]

It was an alright move.

But consider the people who already own Phoenix: Avid Phoenix lovers probably. Otherwise, people who are completionist and play the game enough to own everyone.

Consider those who don’t have Phoenix: They don’t like him, they don’t like medics, they didn’t want Phoenix in particular, etc.

Giving Phoenix to people who don’t want him? Bad idea.
Giving rewards to people who happened to like that one merc? Kind of RNG and doesn’t promote loyalty in a major way.

Now there are minorities:
-People who wanted Phoenix, and were saving up
-New players who hadn’t yet tried him out
-Owners of Phoenix who absolutely hated him

But again, the minorities were barely affected by the giveaway. In the end, yay free stuff, always great, but a merc was perhaps not the best choice. A guaranteed CW update loadout card? A better choice, as it lets players actually show they were there, and they were dedicated and loyal enough to stick around. Not a perfect solution, but it’s something.

[MissMurder1]

Thanks for the discussion. Good to hear all sides of feedback bad and good. Also the survey @Faraleth has been sending around helps a lot too.

[CCP1151]

[quote=“3N1GM4;104588”]I know it seems to be an unpopular opinion, but let’s take it easy on the “remove all the instagibs”. Martyrdom is pointless, it hardly did anything besides the occasional noob or mindless knife gib, proxy mines either gibbed or barely did damage (you either dodged or didnt). Now both hardly down anyone, and if they do, zap, they’re instantly back up.

If anything, I would have preferred leaving the explosives as the were with an increased cool down on frags to 20s and a more aggressive depreciation in damage dealt on the outer radius. It’s still on per spawn, still instagibs anything it ‘touches’ but doesn’t have quite the room clearing devastation. [/quote]

The Martyrdom change was almost negligible, though you have to admit that the radius was incredibly large before. I still got caught out sometimes, even though I was on the other side of the room. This change at least means I won’t get gibbed.

But the real deal breaker is for Proxy. Her mines before at least could kill people. Now? It can’t even gib them. It made a weak merc weaker. I’m no proxy main, but it sounds like the mains don’t like the change much either.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“CCP115;104849”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;104554”]Imo, Dome is the best map so far, we NEED more maps like that.

@Lumi

What the hell are you talking about? That exact same logic can be used with Aura. Just because bad players don’t know how to play Medic doesn’t mean giving one away was a bad idea.

If anything it brought both new players and people who quit, back to the game. It was a good move in my book.[/quote]

It was an alright move.

But consider the people who already own Phoenix: Avid Phoenix lovers probably. Otherwise, people who are completionist and play the game enough to own everyone.

Consider those who don’t have Phoenix: They don’t like him, they don’t like medics, they didn’t want Phoenix in particular, etc.

Giving Phoenix to people who don’t want him? Bad idea.
Giving rewards to people who happened to like that one merc? Kind of RNG and doesn’t promote loyalty in a major way.

Now there are minorities:
-People who wanted Phoenix, and were saving up
-New players who hadn’t yet tried him out
-Owners of Phoenix who absolutely hated him

But again, the minorities were barely affected by the giveaway. In the end, yay free stuff, always great, but a merc was perhaps not the best choice. A guaranteed CW update loadout card? A better choice, as it lets players actually show they were there, and they were dedicated and loyal enough to stick around. Not a perfect solution, but it’s something.[/quote]

Maybe, but still, a free merc for just logging in at the time period is enticing, enough for someone to come back and play a bit just to see how the merc plays. They might find they like the game after all, and that’s a great thing.

A loadout card is a gamble, what if they get one for someone they don’t even own? Then it’s a waste.

It’s a lot better than just a card imo, and it also might be just enough to nudge some people to come back.

As for Dome, I guess I must be one of those weird people because I figured out Dome in a few rounds easy. The maps aren’t laid out so weird that it’s hard to find out where to go.

I agree you could add signs and small hints as to where you could do a trick jump, but other than that the map is exactly what we needed.

I feel like it’s the first true Dirty Bomb map, while the others seem like left overs from the Alpha.

[CCP1151]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;104872”]

Maybe, but still, a free merc for just logging in at the time period is enticing, enough for someone to come back and play a bit just to see how the merc plays. They might find they like the game after all, and that’s a great thing.

A loadout card is a gamble, what if they get one for someone they don’t even own? Then it’s a waste.

It’s a lot better than just a card imo, and it also might be just enough to nudge some people to come back.

As for Dome, I guess I must be one of those weird people because I figured out Dome in a few rounds easy. The maps aren’t laid out so weird that it’s hard to find out where to go.

I agree you could add signs and small hints as to where you could do a trick jump, but other than that the map is exactly what we needed.

I feel like it’s the first true Dirty Bomb map, while the others seem like left overs from the Alpha.[/quote]

That’s where the problem starts, is that yea a free merc is enticing for new and old players, but it isn’t a loyalty reward, which is what it was advertised as.

And a free merc to get players back is a slick strategy, but you know what’s better? More quality content and gamemodes, which is exactly what this update offered. This whole update seems to be around improving the quality of the game and bringing back older players and newer players, but it wasn’t really said directly.

[watsyurdeal]

[quote=“CCP115;104876”]

That’s where the problem starts, is that yea a free merc is enticing for new and old players, but it isn’t a loyalty reward, which is what it was advertised as.

And a free merc to get players back is a slick strategy, but you know what’s better? More quality content and gamemodes, which is exactly what this update offered. This whole update seems to be around improving the quality of the game and bringing back older players and newer players, but it wasn’t really said directly.[/quote]

Um, it was only advertised as such for the Obsidian, everything else…not a single mention

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11010616_904100216305981_5156627669551482698_n.jpg?oh=26f6a97ddd8bc9eeed072022beba87ed&oe=56C798E5

[CCP1151]

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;104881”][quote=“CCP115;104876”]

That’s where the problem starts, is that yea a free merc is enticing for new and old players, but it isn’t a loyalty reward, which is what it was advertised as.

And a free merc to get players back is a slick strategy, but you know what’s better? More quality content and gamemodes, which is exactly what this update offered. This whole update seems to be around improving the quality of the game and bringing back older players and newer players, but it wasn’t really said directly.[/quote]

Um, it was only advertised as such for the Obsidian, everything else…not a single mention

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11010616_904100216305981_5156627669551482698_n.jpg?oh=26f6a97ddd8bc9eeed072022beba87ed&oe=56C798E5

[/quote]

It got advertised in a lot of different places, and I’m not really bothered to go back and look for the loyalty mention.

And again, what about people that absolutely wanted that cosmetic? I know many people want Obsidian cards because of how important they are, and how they show your prestige, but they didn’t get it because why? They didn’t have merc X, and probably because they don’t like merc X.

If SD want to continue doing this, then that’s fine, but being the first time they have done a giveaway like this, it caught everyone off guard and maybe caused a few of the more loyal players to miss out on an Obsidian, which is more or less used as a sign of loyalty or dedication (Founders cards, closed beta cards, etc.)

[HoopleDoople]

[quote=“CCP115;104858”][quote=“3N1GM4;104588”]I know it seems to be an unpopular opinion, but let’s take it easy on the “remove all the instagibs”. Martyrdom is pointless, it hardly did anything besides the occasional noob or mindless knife gib, proxy mines either gibbed or barely did damage (you either dodged or didnt). Now both hardly down anyone, and if they do, zap, they’re instantly back up.

If anything, I would have preferred leaving the explosives as the were with an increased cool down on frags to 20s and a more aggressive depreciation in damage dealt on the outer radius. It’s still on per spawn, still instagibs anything it ‘touches’ but doesn’t have quite the room clearing devastation. [/quote]

The Martyrdom change was almost negligible, though you have to admit that the radius was incredibly large before. I still got caught out sometimes, even though I was on the other side of the room. This change at least means I won’t get gibbed.

But the real deal breaker is for Proxy. Her mines before at least could kill people. Now? It can’t even gib them. It made a weak merc weaker. I’m no proxy main, but it sounds like the mains don’t like the change much either.[/quote]

If martyrdom can’t gib it really doesn’t have any impact on the match. If you’re in a position where you want to use martyrdom instead of hoping for a revive you’re almost always in a position where any enemy you down can be easily revived. And it was already pretty rare that competent players would be hit by martyrdom, let alone gibbed.

[CCP1151]

[quote=“HoopleDoople;104893”]

If martyrdom can’t gib it really doesn’t have any impact on the match. If you’re in a position where you want to use martyrdom instead of hoping for a revive you’re almost always in a position where any enemy you down can be easily revived. And it was already pretty rare that competent players would be hit by martyrdom, let alone gibbed.[/quote]

I suppose it did kind of affect Nader’s effectivity. Did it affect her main nades though? If it only affected Martyrdom, it would explain why noone is up in arms about it.

[Drcipres]

[quote=“CCP115;104858”][quote=“3N1GM4;104588”]I know it seems to be an unpopular opinion, but let’s take it easy on the “remove all the instagibs”. Martyrdom is pointless, it hardly did anything besides the occasional noob or mindless knife gib, proxy mines either gibbed or barely did damage (you either dodged or didnt). Now both hardly down anyone, and if they do, zap, they’re instantly back up.

If anything, I would have preferred leaving the explosives as the were with an increased cool down on frags to 20s and a more aggressive depreciation in damage dealt on the outer radius. It’s still on per spawn, still instagibs anything it ‘touches’ but doesn’t have quite the room clearing devastation. [/quote]

The Martyrdom change was almost negligible, though you have to admit that the radius was incredibly large before. I still got caught out sometimes, even though I was on the other side of the room. This change at least means I won’t get gibbed.

But the real deal breaker is for Proxy. Her mines before at least could kill people. Now? It can’t even gib them. It made a weak merc weaker. I’m no proxy main, but it sounds like the mains don’t like the change much either.[/quote]

Im still able to kill with her, i think now you just have to place them in corners, so if someone goes there, he will turn to keep going, instead of going just forward, this in the house of bridge, in the stairs, you should be able to keep killing

[CCP1151]

[quote=“Drcipres;104918”]
Im still able to kill with her, i think now you just have to place them in corners, so if someone goes there, he will turn to keep going, instead of going just forward, this in the house of bridge, in the stairs, you should be able to keep killing[/quote]

Again though, before mines could very well catch people off guard, and then on people would be fairly paranoid.

Now it’s pretty damn easy to just run past mine and not get gibbed or even die.