OK i had enough. I want to see racional arguments on why fragger wasnt nerfed by now.

(Bloodbite) #21

Posting gameplay issues at the Nexxon site would be fairly useless as their involvement is purely server/distribution based. All internal mechanics are going to go un-addressed there.

You could ignore my post, but you didn’t… your angry titled post suggested you could be bated. I’m almost disappointed you didn’t react with gamer-rage.

Seriously though. It’s worth remembering the nature of a beta. There’s a lot they are still working on, and balancing is not a priority. The game still has the potential to crash/freeze or otherwise be weird in kicking some folks out of a server on map change, or mid game, or whatever… that and other game breaking type issues always become a priority over any content and balancing concerns.

Until the game is officially released, we are bug testing, stress testing, etc. Nobody should be logging in expecting this to be a true representation of a final product experience. Real balance testing won’t happen until the game goes Open Beta.

The fast fix would be nice, the permanent fix is what is important.

They will address things in time, just remember they’re a small team and they have a process they need to adhere to to reach the finish line.

Ultimately what I am saying is post your views on why Fragger needs to be nerfed without getting too frustrated and emotional, how you think it could be done… and wait. However long it takes for it to get patched in, we all have to wait patiently during this phase.

(tangoliber) #22

Don’t want to add spread or random recoil to any gun, personally. Slippery slope.

I really want to see a competitive tournament with the current balancing. I’m always skeptical of balancing opinions on forums, since they are so often wrong.

Considering that he is meant to be a hybrid between a heavy chaingunner and a base raider… (not as good as a chaingunner as Rhino, and not as good of a raider as Nader), I can see Fragger as being a commonly used merc in competitive matches. However, I also see most teams having a sniper, at least one engineer, and at least one medic. I don’t know how much room there is to stack Fraggers. I’d like to watch a tournament, like the one that was canceled today, to see what the winning teams used.

Rock Paper Scissors is just three counters…not good for any game with strategic depth, which needs a web of hard and soft counters. But I don’t see any problem with counters in an FPS. I thought that was part of the idea behind the merc system,

(shibbyuk) #23

I’m trying to understand why fragger is such a big problem… Sure, he can kill more effectively than other mercs but that’s surely the point. There are things he can’t do and it’s not true that there is no counter for him. To list just a few: teamwork, snipers, artillery & opposing fraggers. I think the problem is that you’re trying to think up ways to win 1v1 battles with a same-skilled fragger. Having said that, I do find that assault rifles can effectively despatch of a machine-gun toting fragger at distance.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, that he doesn’t need any nerfing/balancing at all, but having read through the thread I still don’t fully understand.

And yes, I get killed by grenades fairly often but then I do in most FPS games. At least in DB there’s only a few classes that have them - grenade spam isn’t that bad in my experience. If fragger is so overpowered then why don’t we see teams full of fraggers?

(syku1) #24

[QUOTE=shibbyuk;525491]I’m trying to understand why fragger is such a big problem… Sure, he can kill more effectively than other mercs but that’s surely the point. There are things he can’t do and it’s not true that there is no counter for him. To list just a few: teamwork, snipers, artillery & opposing fraggers. I think the problem is that you’re trying to think up ways to win 1v1 battles with a same-skilled fragger. Having said that, I do find that assault rifles can effectively despatch of a machine-gun toting fragger at distance.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, that he doesn’t need any nerfing/balancing at all, but having read through the thread I still don’t fully understand.

And yes, I get killed by grenades fairly often but then I do in most FPS games. At least in DB there’s only a few classes that have them - grenade spam isn’t that bad in my experience. If fragger is so overpowered then why don’t we see teams full of fraggers?[/QUOTE]
The problem with fraggers are the nades, they have the potential to insta gib any merc without them being able to react to it, and require very little skill to use effectively, also in 5v5 there are many teams that run 2-3 fraggers and i know for a fact it isnt for fraggers gun…

(spookify) #25

He’s Nades are fine… There might be a bug or two with them that was talked about in the SD Stream… But other then the bugs the nade damage and cooldown is fine. The problem is the small and narrow maps in some places. I dont see people QQ’ing about fraggers nades on Dome…

Drops Mic

(tangoliber) #26

[QUOTE=spookify;525511]He’s Nades are fine… There might be a bug or two with them that was talked about in the SD Stream… But other then the bugs the nade damage and cooldown is fine. The problem is the small and narrow maps in some places. I dont see people QQ’ing about fraggers nades on Dome…

Drops Mic[/QUOTE]

Excuse me, you dropped your microphone…

(spookify) #27

Oh, thanks I was wondering where I put that :wink:

(syku1) #28

[QUOTE=spookify;525511]He’s Nades are fine… There might be a bug or two with them that was talked about in the SD Stream… But other then the bugs the nade damage and cooldown is fine. The problem is the small and narrow maps in some places. I dont see people QQ’ing about fraggers nades on Dome…

Drops Mic[/QUOTE]

I agree that nades can be fixed by making better maps, but i doubt they will be changing the currect maps tbh.

(PixelTwitch) #29

[QUOTE=spookify;525511]He’s Nades are fine… There might be a bug or two with them that was talked about in the SD Stream… But other then the bugs the nade damage and cooldown is fine. The problem is the small and narrow maps in some places. I dont see people QQ’ing about fraggers nades on Dome…

Drops Mic[/QUOTE]

I will complain about Fraggers nades on Dome…
Why???

I don’t give a **** about if they are balanced or not… I care if they are going to be a big reason why people leave the game…
They are a sign of bad design and most importantly a very bad direction the game is moving towards…

“Yea its fine that everything kills you with no way of reacting and very little feedback”
“As long as its nice to use that is all that matters…”

Honestly. If I leave become these are not changed… Its not directly because of them.
It’s because I have little to no faith in a game that believes that form of design is going to attract anyone to the game or that its even acceptable…

Everytime you drop the Mic I just picture the hundreds that have dropped the game…

(prophett) #30

If nades are nerfed (which I agree they should be), aura’s health station needs to F! off as well.

(tangoliber) #31

If the nades were nerfed by not allowing you to cook them, would you still need to nerf the health station for that reason? (Uncooked grenade will still kill the health station.)

(prophett) #32

Whether or not the nades get a nerf or not, the heal station need to F off. Stop the heal while taking damage.

(spookify) #33

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;525544]I will complain about Fraggers nades on Dome…
Why???

I don’t give a **** about if they are balanced or not… I care if they are going to be a big reason why people leave the game…
They are a sign of bad design and most importantly a very bad direction the game is moving towards…

“Yea its fine that everything kills you with no way of reacting and very little feedback”
“As long as its nice to use that is all that matters…”

Honestly. If I leave become these are not changed… Its not directly because of them.
It’s because I have little to no faith in a game that believes that form of design is going to attract anyone to the game or that its even acceptable…

Every time you drop the Mic I just picture the hundreds that have dropped the game…[/QUOTE]

Maybe SD needs to Rename server:
SW Beginner
SW Novice
SW Advanced

In ET and RTCW people knew which servers to pub in. They knew those servers had the better layers in them.

Side Note: In those games everyone had nades and people even had Panzers and Rnades to Spawn Kill.

I do see a few threads here and there about fraggers nades but nothing earth shattering that would suggest they are broke… They did nerf them and a person can definitely tell. It takes a near direct hit to kill other fraggers and as for the other classes they are so fast that they are ahead of everyone else. You really need to pick your targets. I think we are also seeing some old school RTCW and ET players testing right now and some of them have years of practice with this nade system.

As for people quitting I never want to see that. Like a few youtube videos said this is a hard game to get used to and IMO it is only going to get worse.

I will also omit I am probably the number one spawn killer in this game but it gives your team such a big advantage you actually need to do it in SW mode. Plus is super fun!

I have thrown fraggers nades into groups of people with the recent nerf and only killed one. Before I would kill 4 or 5! The nades have to be well placed in-order to kill.

If one person can turn the tide of the game why shouldnt he?

How would you nerf his nades? Slightly less AOE? The sad part is I do not even have the card/perk that increases his AOE…

When more and more people start playing this game people will start to catch on and actually look for a fragger around their spawn. People will start to check the little hiding places and kill the Fragger while he is still cooking his nade. Its a very high risk high reward because that fragger will be out full if he doesnt kill and gib someone; basically messing up his whole team. But if he does kill and gib two people the advantage has switched.

“IF” the nades are Nerfed I would like to see a higher skill nerf.

  • Lower AOE radius but with 170 Damage inner blast damage.
  • If the nade is landed at your feet within 2 feet I want that nade to insta gib you. As it should! You see a little blinking light at your feet. It should be oh ****! not o well…
(PixelTwitch) #34

You contradict yourself soo much…

The nades should have a larger AoE and do less max damage, being limited to one kill/gibbing light Mercs only.
The Damage should be multiplied vs deployable objects and the cooldown should be reduced.

The nades should be used to enable you to enter a fight with a huge advantage not bypass the fight completely…

He should be able to wipe out defences with a few well placed nades.
He should have the ability to throw a nade up frequently and nade on downed players should gib in a large area.

(tangoliber) #35

[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;525564]You contradict yourself soo much…

The nades should have a larger AoE and do less max damage, being limited to one kill/gibbing light Mercs only.
The Damage should be multiplied vs deployable objects and the cooldown should be reduced.

The nades should be used to enable you to enter a fight with a huge advantage not bypass the fight completely…

He should be able to wipe out defences with a few well placed nades.
He should have the ability to throw a nade up frequently and nade on downed players should gib in a large area.[/QUOTE]

“Frequently” is relative so I don’t know how frequently you intend it to be, but as he is a hybrid of a Rhino and a Nader, he shouldn’t be able to clear as well as Nader, just as he shouldn’t be able to eat through healthbars as well as Rhino.

(PixelTwitch) #36

Basically dropping the cool down back to 25 seconds instead of the 30.
Also maxing damage out at 100 so can still kill+instagib lights + sniper.
Range of damage doubled, inner damage radius kept the same as is currently.

direct nades on lighter mercs will outright kill and gib,.

Vs Mercs like sawbones would leave them on 10hp ish and force sawbones to react with heals + reivives while fragger and friends commit to the attack.
Outcome of combat is likely to turn out mostly the same (fragger and friends killing them) but at least there is the chance to react and escape (maybe). Don’t make it feel so bull**** to die. Add some counter play into the mix and stop scaring away new players.

(sunshinefats) #37

I have to agree with spook here on the nades…the nades are fine since the last nerf. If anything, as someone who plays fragger a lot, I find the recent nerf frustrating compared to how they were. They take forever to cook and very often players still either outrun them or simply aren’t killed by them. How is that OP? Sure you can still kill 3-4 people with a well placed one, but it’s a grenade, what else would you expect?

(Szakalot) #38

Not sure what you are talking about, I had a game today with Glottis where every second nade thrown was a kill, usually with instagib. If you know where to throw it and time the cooking right, at anything smaller than mid-range its undodgeable

(ragnak) #39

You serious ? If you compare it to grenades from games like ET its a joke to even complain. In ET it took longer to switch to grenades, it took longer to cook, you could survive a hit as long as it wasnt a direct hit (when its dropped on the ground and you jump above it, didnt always work but still), it was about 50% slower and you took A LOT longer to switch back to your gun. It was also generally easier to kill someone in duel when he was cooking his nade.

At the very least i would expect slower travel time (because right now its more of a grenade launcher and not grenade) AND longer cook time so you can rush the fragger that cook it, right now you can only run away from him and he will simply cancel cooking.

(Hundopercent) #40

Give him 1 nade, the TTK on his gun I don’t believe is higher than any of the LTs. Vassili/Aura are a bigger problem/impact anyway.