Now that CMM and Ranked are going away

(Darkwolf3802) #21

Im guna miss the rares from ranked to be more precise. I love having unique things that are hard to have and look good. I wish they would implement a reward system like ranked to make the new system alittle more worth a rare hunters go.

(Press E) #22

@Lord_Coctus said:

@STARRYSOCK said:
Ranked needed a rework, not a removal. A lot of people loved it, and I would too if they fixed some of its major problems.

I actually found that as long as enough people are playing ranked at a time (like during extra rank point event), games have been balanced.

That’s not the only issue I had with ranked sadly. Extremely grindy rewards, being punished if someone else leaves your team, a spam of meta mercs like arty or fragger, no consideration of personal performance, buggy af player collision, etc. Those issues were all still present even in the ranked point event.

(NinjaToast) #23

I’m confused by the decision. I thought CMM was made looking towards 1.0 and the influx of players that would bring.

(FalC_16) #24

@“Ninja Toast” said:
I’m confused by the decision. I thought CMM was made looking towards 1.0 and the influx of players that would bring.

They may have just parked CMM and ranked till more players come in.

(Teflon Love) #25

@Lord_Coctus said:

@STARRYSOCK said:
Ranked needed a rework, not a removal. A lot of people loved it, and I would too if they fixed some of its major problems.

I actually found that as long as enough people are playing ranked at a time (like during extra rank point event), games have been balanced.

In my experience Ranked worked once every player was around mid Gold or better because then the even the limited single Elo rating based match making could not do wrong anymore. The main reason being that at that point every player was proficient enough in every role that it did not really matter what merc they played. Combined with a basic understanding what role was needed, teams had a proper composition and skill for every role.

Below that players were regularly unable to fill a certain role, so you’d end up without competent medic or engi or explosive specialist. Once this happens, the game becomes a drag.

And the match making ensured that this happened regularly because it only looked at a single Elo rating but not what role a less experienced player was able to fill, and take this into account when composing a team of less experienced players.

The minimum requirement for ranked also was severely flawed. Instead of using an overall minimum level, something more related to merc specific skill would have gone a long way. Also demanding that a player must basically understand how to play medic and engi would have helped. Be it hours played per merc, a few skill specific achievements or something maybe even better.

But SD showed a complete lack of creativity and vision is this respect for 2 years (despite several good suggestions by various people in this forum). So the match making never got better in any meaningful way and the games just kept being awful.

Putting the broken match making out of its misery by removing CMM and Ranked puts the responsibility for balancing a match back to players. Essentially it’s just a capitulation on SD’s side. I kind of respect them for admitting this, but it doesn’t really make things better.

(Darkwolf3802) #26

@“Ninja Toast” said:
I’m confused by the decision. I thought CMM was made looking towards 1.0 and the influx of players that would bring.

With the decline of the playerbase thats going on they need to rework it. If not the games dead, same goes for ranked.

(HadronZodiac) #27

@STARRYSOCK said:
Ranked needed a rework, not a removal. A lot of people loved it, and I would too if they fixed some of its major problems.

CMM is eh. The game was just fine before it was added, and considering the amount of complaints about it from the community, I doubt it’ll be the end of the world.

Agreed

(Aerodrome) #28

Stopwatch its unbalanced mode always and not so interesting like OBJective. Players dont wanna disappointment all the time where for 1 good balanced game ~ 5 unbalanced toxic games. Developers need to emrove game and timing for 1 mode … where u dont wanna fight with time and just play 1 round

(Darkwolf3802) #29

@Aerodrome said:
Stopwatch its unbalanced mode always and not so interesting like OBJective. Players dont wanna disappointment all the time where for 1 good balanced game ~ 5 unbalanced toxic games. Developers need to emrove game and timing for 1 mode … where u dont wanna fight with time and just play 1 round

If theres no timer hows the defenders supposed to win? How is this going to be a fast paced game if u can play 2hrs in one round? If u really wana play a game without a timer go check out TF2 and see what that turned into.

(Press E) #30

@Darkwolf3802 said:

@Aerodrome said:
Stopwatch its unbalanced mode always and not so interesting like OBJective. Players dont wanna disappointment all the time where for 1 good balanced game ~ 5 unbalanced toxic games. Developers need to emrove game and timing for 1 mode … where u dont wanna fight with time and just play 1 round

If theres no timer hows the defenders supposed to win? How is this going to be a fast paced game if u can play 2hrs in one round? If u really wana play a game without a timer go check out TF2 and see what that turned into.

Exactly.

But like… objective has a timer too and apparently that’s interesting…?

(bgyoshi) #31

@STARRYSOCK said:

But like… objective has a timer too and apparently that’s interesting…?

Yeah because it increments as you complete objectives, meaning your time is limited, which is interesting

Instead of just counting down from 15, which is boring

In objective, a stomp only lasts 7 minutes max

In stopwatch, it lasts all 15 minutes, with people leaving and new players joining and leaving and joining and leaving and joining and leaving and… you get the idea

(l2c) #32

Can’t stand FF, and CMM takes too long. However, I have no opinion on QJ, so… “Other”.

(Press E) #33

@bgyoshi said:

@STARRYSOCK said:

But like… objective has a timer too and apparently that’s interesting…?

Yeah because it increments as you complete objectives, meaning your time is limited, which is interesting

Instead of just counting down from 15, which is boring

In objective, a stomp only lasts 7 minutes max

In stopwatch, it lasts all 15 minutes, with people leaving and new players joining and leaving and joining and leaving and joining and leaving and… you get the idea

I might have totally misread @Aerodrome’s comment, and well, rereading it I’d rather not try to make sense of it lol. I just took it to meant they disliked stopwatch because it had a timelimit.

But yeah, I agree with you. If a team can’t finish the first objective in 5 minutes then continuing the match is just boring

(Aerodrome) #34

Some aggressive stuff against ranked:
Server browser + casual gaming was totally ruined past year. This game was under control ranked players with stopwatch mode.
Ranked stopwatch its a toxic unbalanced bullshit where u can have 4 friends and its working like a cheat against solo pub player.
Ranked stopwatch mode only working on community players who came from killed PUB + SERVER BROWSER.
U need to learn 22 percs before u JOIN Ranked. Where u wanna do this?
Only on PUB …

(Aerodrome) #35

@STARRYSOCK said:
I might have totally misread @Aerodrome’s comment, and well, rereading it I’d rather not try to make sense of it lol. I just took it to meant they disliked stopwatch because it had a timelimit.
developers need to focusing on building balanced map with good timing
for example Chapel, Castle - its good for attack/defend … its good for OBJECTIVE MODE
Maps like Underground its good, but sometimes its problem for Objective (2 plants and its fast timing)

(Aerodrome) #36

plus fix problem with shuffle and leavers :slight_smile:
bcoz Here A lot Ranked Players… without ranked mode and who deserve this,
so … they need lo learn now … how to play SIRIOSLY using server browser >:)

([ *O.C.B.* ] Wildcard) #37

@bgyoshi said:

@STARRYSOCK said:

But like… objective has a timer too and apparently that’s interesting…?

Yeah because it increments as you complete objectives, meaning your time is limited, which is interesting

Instead of just counting down from 15, which is boring

In objective, a stomp only lasts 7 minutes max

In stopwatch, it lasts all 15 minutes, with people leaving and new players joining and leaving and joining and leaving and joining and leaving and… you get the idea

True. However with Objective Mode you’re stuck with whatever side you’re placed on, be it Attack or Defense, and with how many maps are designed with a heavy bias towards either side it can quickly become infuriating; you are not given the opportunity to outplay them within the same parameters in Objective Mode as opposed to Stopwatch. If the maps weren’t clearly biased towards favoring a given side at different points of the map I’d enjoy Objective mode more than I currently do; but as it stands I’d rather have the chance to turn the loss around, doing their job but better as opposed to just getting stomped and being done with it. After all sometimes there is just too much momentum behind a given side and it carries over into a section of a map that favors them already, making any attempts to stop them an egregious uphill battle that will likely be lost before it begins.

I get the appeal of Objective mode, in that it is good for a quick game without the need to stay for a full match, but this game has always been balanced around Stopwatch and the competitive format (even on the Public Test Servers) thus the maps were designed accordingly as a consequence. So Objective Mode will always have its drawbacks in that regard, as Dirty Bomb has never been balanced nor the maps designed with that Game Mode as its core focus; this is assuming there isn’t a massive rework of content from the start of Open Beta up to the present, which I highly doubt will ever occur.

(bgyoshi) #38

@-OCB-Wildcard said:
True. However with Objective Mode you’re stuck with whatever side you’re placed on, be it Attack or Defense,

In combination with the clearly superior timing format of Objective, this is why I’ve repeatedly suggested that Stopwatch be completely abandoned and instead just becomes 2 rounds of Objective mode. It tracks your time to completion and your progress just like current stopwatch, but the timers work like objective mode; incrementing with each objective completion. One side attacks, the other defends, then they switch.

Why it isn’t like this now, I don’t know. But forcing people to endure max 15 minutes for the first round is horrible.

#39

Removing Ranked and Execution has killed this game for me. Couldn’t care less about CMM and I’ll be happy to see some old server browsing returned with 7v7 and 8v8 queues if we’re never going to get custom servers added, but it’s not enough to keep me interested anymore. I stayed patient a long time and had high hopes for DB. I’ll be back when and if we get another competitive mode added with customs. There just isn’t any appeal to me anymore. I’m not interested in grinding the same casual modes and maps over and over after having already unlocked just about everything aside from these pointless cosmetic skin events. I want more options and reasons to play this game.

See y’all around. I’ll still lurk every now and then and pray we get some good changes!

(Szakalot) #40

@bgyoshi said:

@-OCB-Wildcard said:
True. However with Objective Mode you’re stuck with whatever side you’re placed on, be it Attack or Defense,

In combination with the clearly superior timing format of Objective, this is why I’ve repeatedly suggested that Stopwatch be completely abandoned and instead just becomes 2 rounds of Objective mode. It tracks your time to completion and your progress just like current stopwatch, but the timers work like objective mode; incrementing with each objective completion. One side attacks, the other defends, then they switch.

Why it isn’t like this now, I don’t know. But forcing people to endure max 15 minutes for the first round is horrible.

I can concede that what you’re describing would be fine for casual stopwatch. Its not real competition though, as it splits the map into several arbitrary sections. Your solution will make for faster casual games, ending imbalanced stops faster and it could work.

For ranked/comp it would be silly though, as it removes any chance for a comeback. While not as common in DB, in previous SD games; having the full timer for a single stopwatch game doesn’t force you to give up just because you got beaten in the first few min. You have time to change your strategy on a given objective, and maybe you have a superior approach to the rest of the map, that in the end will allow you to win. E.g. on Chapel your team might struggle to get the EV to its destination but will eventually succeed, and with a superior last obj attack you complete the delivery in under 2min. Opposing team on the 2nd round has a superior EV push, but just cannot get past your superior hold on last obj. Game is won after a difficult battle.

Your method forces teams to have similar completion times across all objectives, and will likely result in excessive draws on several maps in current comp (e.g. neither team will finish bridge fix on first obj, neither team will get past 1st obj underground)