Not showing players levels in public games

(Fiktio) #21

Sometimes it’s good to remember that those random people’s insults does not define you and in general those insults are worth of nothing.

People always complain, it’s natural part humankind. Also people that wants to complain, they will, no matter is your level hidden or not. If level gets replaced by ranks/titles, people will use them for being able to insult you.
Some people are getting already getting insulted for high number of playing hours in-game, but still “they are too bad in the game, they should be better because of X amount of hours.”
I hope nobody is going to suggest that “let’s hide Steam profiles next.”
Even some players are getting insulted because of the merc preferences.
For example some players are insulting Nader players. I hope you realize at this point that “hiding” aka removing Nader from the game is not that good solution.

You can’t keep hiding everything forever, just because someone is saying mean things for you, because of it. People always will find something for being able to insult you.
I know it’s easier said than done, but instead of hiding everything, how about finding the part of yourself that does not care what others think about you?

(IcySkyz) #22

i still think using a global kdr (hidden to players) to balance/matchmmaking is better than using score points.

(MarsRover) #23

Because that engineer that suicide repaired the EV on the last stretch of Chapel (while the rest of his team was camping and taking potshots) and ends with 10/30 KD is obviously an awful player who should be valued even less than those 3/6 Vasillis?

Valuing players by KD in an objective game, my head just…

(Demolama) #24

[quote=“Fiktio;91059”]Sometimes it’s good to remember that those random people’s insults does not define you and in general those insults are worth of nothing.

People always complain, it’s natural part humankind. Also people that wants to complain, they will, no matter is your level hidden or not. If level gets replaced by ranks/titles, people will use them for being able to insult you.
Some people are getting already getting insulted for high number of playing hours in-game, but still “they are too bad in the game, they should be better because of X amount of hours.”
I hope nobody is going to suggest that “let’s hide Steam profiles next.”
Even some players are getting insulted because of the merc preferences.
For example some players are insulting Nader players. I hope you realize at this point that “hiding” aka removing Nader from the game is not that good solution.

You can’t keep hiding everything forever, just because someone is saying mean things for you, because of it. People always will find something for being able to insult you.
I know it’s easier said than done, but instead of hiding everything, how about finding the part of yourself that does not care what others think about you?[/quote]

The thread has moved away from OP’s worries. Concerns over level shaming has less to do with just name calling and more about players not being able to play due to being vote kicked simply because of their level

(IcySkyz) #25

[quote=“MarsRover;91093”]Because that engineer that suicide repaired the EV on the last stretch of Chapel (while the rest of his team was camping and taking potshots) and ends with 10/30 KD is obviously an awful player who should be valued as much as those 3/6 vasillis?

Valuing players by KD in an objective game, my head just…[/quote]

There is nothing wrong with that playstyle nor would I say that they are an awful player. However I do think that by dividing teams by KDR would still end up with a more balanced games. If teams are getting relatively the same amount of kills, the main deciding factor will then become how well coordinated can the team do objectives.

But the game doesn’t do that right now. Instead doing objectives is King of the game. Just as you said in your own example, that “enginneer” has to end up sucide repairing b/c his/her team isn’t competent enough to get kills while moving (and thus camps).

(Daergar) #26

Has to do with perceived imbalance of teams. Has to do with kicking players. Has to do with people emptying a server simply because a single “high level” player is on one team after the pre-match shuffle.

Has very little to do with your reflected self-esteem issues. Read the posts again. :wink:

(Fiktio) #27

@Daergar and @Demolama

The point still remains what I wrote up there. I doubt anything will change even if levels will get hidden and - probably - replaced with something else.
For example if titles will replace levels, probably high titled players will get kicked out by people that can’t stand them.
Same goes with almost everything else. If levels aren’t in the game, they might take a look to your Steam profile for reason X and start kicking you because of huge amount of hours in-game anyways.
People are already judging another players from in-game hours.
“Oh you have been playing this game over 500 hours. This is unfair match.”

Should Steam profiles get hidden next?
Yes? No?
Do you really think that hiding level would be proper solution?

Heh, those people that are kicking with stupid reason will find a reason to kick you anyways, no matter are levels shown up or not. People just find a different reason to remove you out, no matter how ridiculous the reason is. :wink:

(Demolama) #28

so you don’t see getting kicked as soon as you enter a server a problem?

(Fiktio) #29

I basically meant that people anyway will find a reason to kick you out sooner or later.
Even when I haven’t seen high levels getting kicked out of any matches, I’m not saying that it’s not happening. However I can see that people are finding many ways to get an excuse to get rid off players. No matter is it level, merc they prefer, loadout they use or what ever is an excuse. Hiding levels will not stop that happening.

However there are some good things in levels as well. For example I use it for balancing:
Often if I realize that there is someone near my level or a bit higher in the same team with me, meanwhile opponents are a bit lower level, I can guess the skill level of the another “high level” player and I can make some balance by joining to the opponent team and playing with lower level players. Being able to see other people’s levels is not always a bad thing.

If something negative is happening, it doesn’t always mean that hiding the reason is the best solution. For example I don’t find hiding levels good idea, meanwhile it would be stupid to hide Steam profiles just because of others are judging you by using your Steam profile and also “removing” completely certain merc or loadout from the game, because some people are getting kicked out for using them.

Hiding always is not the best solution to go with.

(Demolama) #30

Sure, I agree people will kick for whatever reason, but removing levels deters immediate votes against a player simply because they entered a server. Without levels how do you know a person is good when the enter the server?

Sure you can wait but kicking people well into a game for scoring well takes more effort. Having to tab out to look at a steam profile that may or may not give any information because that information is controlled by the user takes more effort than simply looking at the scoreboard and seeing a level 30+ just joining the server.

I’m also inclined to think a winning team is less likely to kick their own.

(Fiktio) #31

It’s quite important to remember that high levels does not always mean that the player him-/herself is immediately a good player. Also if you keep the game open and be AFK at lobby, you will reach many hours for the total count in Steam.
So judging from Steam hours isn’t also that great way to find out how high skills you can expect from the player. Yet people judge others by using Steam profiles and they do it often.

Also if you can’t see a level of other players, it’s a bit harder to guess their skill levels and try to balance even at the beginning of the match.
Of course it’s not a great thing if high level player gets kicked because of their high level, but also getting kicked with another ridiculous reason is quite annoying.

I almost forgot to mention that it should be better to try to find a way how those high level players could have a chance to play with another people that are near the same level. It’s also frustrating always play with clueless low level players, meanwhile playing with same level players is often quite enjoyable, if high level players even get that chance in public servers.
Don’t try to hide the problem, when solving the problem and finding the solution would be better thing to do. Right now the matchmaking balance is questionable, so instead of hiding levels, how about trying to figure out how to cause better balance for servers?

(srswizard) #32

I think I’ve been kicked once because of my level, in my 550 ish hours of play.
Interesting how so many of you see this as a big problem.
Could be a #MuricanThing , I guess.

What else is there to play for, right now, next to grinding levels?
There’s no progression of any kind, so at least let me have this false sense of progression.
Hiding my level would be dishonest towards my enemies, anyway.

(Demolama) #33

Right now the matchmaking balance is questionable, so instead of hiding levels, how about trying to figure out how to cause better balance for servers?

That’s because there is no MM on public servers. As long as anyone can use a server browser to access any server that does not a have max/min requirement you can not blame MM for a level 30+ joining a server with <10.

I almost forgot to mention that it should be better to try to find a way how those high level players could have a chance to play with another people that are near the same level

We have min 10 servers and they are almost always empty. Plus no one wants to be the first one to populate a min 10 server and wait 10+ minutes just to have a full match. Most people want to get in and get out in < 1 hr.

Again as long as I can access any server via the browser I should not be getting kicked simply because players don’t like my level …period.

(Supa) #34

IMHO, the amount of points is all that should be displayed on the scoreboard. Levels can exist as a personal reference but would not be shown to anyone else. KDR would not be shown either. In all honesty I would just scrap the levels and KDR tracking all together because there is no point to them.

I do not understand why everyone is arguing to keep them in the game. Why hold onto either of them? This is an objective game with many different skill levels. Whether you are a level 3 or a level 60, have a 3kd or a 0.5kd, everyone has to work together.

For those complaining about higher skilled players carrying the game: Stop complaining and focus on getting to be as good or better than them. Your game level will not change how good you are in a game and truly does not prove anything. However, truly focusing on what is best for the team and playing towards your personal skills in-game WILL prove that you are able to play effectively.

Displaying the points is all you really need in a game like this. Someone please explain to me why they should be in at all. I don’t see the allure and overall do not see the point.

(DaaDog) #35

yeah he really did wreck you xD. (1st game in his Dirty talk merc balancing video)

(Jostabeere) #36

Hiding levels would only make it easier for low level aimboters to scream: “I’m a pro!”

(fancypants) #37

level usually translates in skill, a level 30 player is 90% of times better then a level 10 player, plus if you don´t had levels you would have hackaccusations 24 /7 towards the current level30+ players, sometimes when a player is too good for their level I get suspicious, if hes hight level its understandable.

(Amerika) #38

Until you went to their steam profile and saw it was hidden, had vac bans or showed just how few hours in DB they had.

I know quite a few people who are near my level but nowhere near my skill level.

(Fiktio) #39

@Demolama So basically you also understand what kind of things could get improved.
Basically hiding levels is like this in my eyes:

“We are aware of that we have some problems to balance servers and matches, but why to do anything for it? Why not to hide those levels instead and pretend that those problems does not even exist? What is out of your eyes, is out of your mind.”

^I admit that was a bit sarcastic, but still in my opinion main issue is not levels showing up in the game. The reason why unbalanced matches are happening more often is the main issue developers should give a thought or two.

Hiding levels is like cleaning the dust under the carpet.

(Monty) #40

Although there is a correlation between higher levels and player skill, it does not automatically imply causation. >:

And yeah, I do not think the levels should not be hidden. I do not have a microphone, well, I do not use it, so communication with my team happens through team chat. Thus if my team is made out of low level players, I want to know that so that I can at least try to nudge them into the right direction. (Or even give advice to the opposing team if they are clearly all newbies.)