Not much demand for field ops

(warbie) #1

Perhaps it’s just in the games I play, but I find it’s rare to see a field ops. The few times I’ve picked the class I didn’t feel much use to the team either - mainly because everyone starts with plenty of ammo. In ET medics start with 30 bullets and a field ops was your best friend. In DB medics start with 90 and you don’t need one.

I also find that airstrikes aren’t that much use. Good for damaging the EV, but very hard to get infantry kills. Perhaps this is intentional, but given that there isn’t much demand for the field ops primary skill and that the other is very situational, why bring one along?

Suggestions - reduce default starting ammo for all other classes (maybe leave the soldier alone) and less of a delay before airstrikes land.

(tokamak) #2

I think both the medic and the field ops are currently undervalued due to the communication between the teams is pretty much non-existent. Once people can announce they need health or ammo and an indicator appears over their heads then there will be a lot more use.

Also artillery needs to last longer and be less lethal. It’s about area denial, not about killing people.

And I think field ops could use a smoke grenade. That way he also has a capability for indoors. This always felt like a field ops weapon to me as it’s used defensively to protect the team. The covert ops should have something different, like tear gas, offensively protecting the team.

(warbie) #3

Do you often find you need ammo? I rarely do. With gibs supplying even more and given that we start with loads. I agree about airstrikes being for clearing areas and picking off people not quick enough to get out the way - something they were often and effectively used for in RTCW/ET, but not so much in DB. Probably because they’re few key chokes points in the current maps and not much encouragement for teams to stick together.

(Humate) #4

Played in quite a few games that were either fops, sniper, or engie heavy teams.

For the airstrike it possibly needs a prime? You should be able to surprise players with the strike by lobbing it at a decent height. Currently it doesnt initiate until it hits the ground and explodes, if memory serves me correctly.

(tokamak) #5

I still object to the idea that the artillery and airstrikes are meant to directly kill people. They’re meant to move opponents out of where you want them and then sure, in the panic your team can pick off the people running for their lives.

That’s why I really like to see both of these become less dangerous but more often usable. I gladly trade a longer warning signal or lower damage shells with a shorter cooldown duration.

That way you feel more like the ‘smooth operator’ archetype which is what the field ops is supposed to feel like.

For indoors a white phosphorus cluster shell would work. A grenade that explodes in small iridescent fragments that bounce against the floor and walls several times, basically filling up the room with fireworks.

Again, not lethal (maybe lethal through an indirect damage over time from burning) with a very long and obvious warning signal. The emphasis lies on clearing people out of a room because your team needs to move in.

(iwound) #6

ive been playing as field ops and dishing out ammo at points of defence, as i often run out of ammo. and get lots of customers. its a great way to hold a good defence.
regarding power of artillary i dont think it does enough. you have to hit someone on the the head to get them it seems.

firstly it should have a sound as its falling ie a whistle. doesnt make sense its totally silent then boom.

secondly the visual blast is still minute. you feel like you can risk dodging them at little to no risk. you should be scared of aunthillary.
even if its a large visual boom and push on player but not a instant kill. i feel like if im on full health a strike by a blast should bring me near to death, then i still have a chance of continuing if i have medic support. but at least it is high risk.
i want to see more apparent damage and feel a strong push. atm its pretty weak.
the blast pattern appears to be too vertical with little on the horizontal.
also i would like to see when an artillary blast interacts with certain material that corresponding gibs fly, ie glass wood. i want to feel that when a missile hits near to a shop say where im taking cover then i hear glass smash, i see wood fly and feel the shockwave and possible injury.

in all when you hear the whistle of artillary you should feel the urge to shout “incoming” not “dont worry its only artillary”.

(tokamak) #7

its a great way to hold a good defence

That’s a problem isn’t it? The field ops is complementary to a team that is already structurally sound. A team that isn’t already coherent has no much need for a field ops anyway. It should be the other way around. The field ops need to bring a team together and direct them.

In ETQW the best tool for this role was the supply crate. It did more than just giving supplies, it made teams more coherent. A medic had enormous sway in what way the team would attack simply by deciding where the supply crate would land. From there on a team would group up and kick ass.

I want that centralising task for the field ops as well. Converge the team, diverge the opponents. That’s the depth DB currently lacks.

(stealth6) #8

I pretty much completely disagree with everything in this thread. I’ve played fdops quite a lot (only defense). The arty is perfect as is, I always drop it on the EV, or near it to block off the opponents. If it did less damage, it wouldn’t be a threat and wouldn’t stop the enemy (also it would feel stupid, being thrown away by an explosion - well at least in the current build no explosions push you so it would feel out of place). If it lasted longer it would slow down the fast gameplay in DB. I think the current delay is the same as in W:ET or quite close and I like it as is. (Even though it’s not that long, it means you need to deploy it at the right moment)

As for airstrike, I think people just need to experiment with it some more. I remember in W:ET people would look for ways to drop the airstrike in a certain position so it would clear out the enemy’s spawn wave without them seeing it coming. You could also determine how you wanted it to drop by facing that way.

I do think the airstrike needs more audio cues like in W:ET.

As for people not needing ammo… I think this is mainly in pub servers. Everybody is trying to rambo, so as an attacker you frequently come across an enemy to kill and take his ammo. If the defense stuck together near the objective I think it would be much harder to get some ammo - need for ammo packs rises.
This is the same for defense atm lot’s of players like to run of and act all rambo style, but if the team stuck together and camped the objective there would be more need for the fdops to dispense ammo.

I’m not saying all players are like this atm, I’ve had a few really good games where the team did stick together more or less and I’ve handed out lots of ammo, but there are always a few who just play their own game.

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention, 1 thing that really does annoy me. When you get hit trying to place arty down the counter resets… To get the timing right on the arty, you often have to put yourself at risk so this really annoys me that the arty is sometimes a death sentence, without reward.

(tokamak) #9

f it did less damage, it wouldn’t be a threat and wouldn’t stop the enemy (also it would feel stupid, being thrown away by an explosion -

It could have another undesired effect, like a shockwave push. Just anything to make the effect last longer without being overpowered.

(stealth6) #10

Maybe there could be other unlockable arty strikes like something that blinds you or a shockwave, etc.
I mainly use it to defend the area near to or where the EV is and that kind of stuff isn’t going to stop an engi with pliers imo.

(.Chris.) #11

It annoys me when a team mate runs in front of your laser which also resets it. Other day I had a sniper near by that was shifting side to side a lot and interrupted my strike about 5 times, I felt like aiming it at my feet and running off.

(stealth6) #12

So true :smiley: but I think that also has to do with the fact that some people don’t realize that breaking the laser does that, even though I’m pretty sure they can see the laser. Possible solutions would be to make the laser brighter or make it hurt things that are in the way :penguin:

(Mustang) #13

Also make it lock-on faster, takes ages right now.

(iwound) #14

er :confused: i had to check this. nades push when your killed but not otherwise.
bullets i dont know how much if any any. just went to test no one would shoot me.

i presumed there was push on impacts as there should be. otherwise theres no interaction with these things.
im suggesting that it be greater on the artillary but also now, that all impacts push. as it is something is hitting you either shrapnel or shockwave. i couldnt say how much previous et games had it but you didnt just walk through any explosion with no effect.
and it shouldnt just be at death.
id like to know from one of the SD team re this.

i thought you were both dancing. :smiley:

(DarkangelUK) #15

It’s an airstrike not a hugstrike, it’s supposed to be powerful. I’d rather there was a bit more obvious notice, again the AS cans in RtCW were perfect for this, you’d see the smoke from the can and everyone would scatter. Something like the Left 4 Dead pipe bomb beeps and a flashing LED. I also liked in RtCW that you could jump ontop of the airstrike can if you were quick enough and it wouldn’t fire.

(.Chris.) #16

You can do this in DB, I’ve done it a couple of times, not sure when the cut off point is though, sometimes it doesn’t work, you die from the mini explosion either way.

(Humate) #17

You did that with me, i think.
IMO if youre out of ammo why not… but not something I would try in a match.

(Pytox) #18

I like to play as field ops from time to time as my ammo gets depleted quite quickly :slight_smile:
Also it’s good to gain lots of xp :smiley:

(Kiddspooky) #19

While playing medic, I appreciate the FO very much!

But with the dead bodies dropping ammo, it makes them not needed as much it seems. Also…

I would let thier arty go off much faster, there is just far too much warning. Since it has a small aoe in the first place, its very easy to get away from. It’s purpose seems more to scatter people, then kill them.

Also I would give them the fire for effect, that ET had… calling in mortar fire or w/e it was. It just feels a little bland right now, also their player model stands out too much.

(iwound) #20

[QUOTE=Kiddspooky;414903]
I would let thier arty go off much faster, there is just far too much warning…[/QUOTE]

do you mean start more quickly. i would agree (only because of the fast nature of the game and how slow it is to set off, perhaps quicker placement with laser)
and if the later impacts seemed more random if not random within a set period.
also because of the tight streets most arty ends up on the roofs.

re drone/air strike i set one off right next to eva near end of match but didn even scratch it. needs a bigger area of damage.