No unlocking new stuff = no reason to play more than 30 minutes

#1

Sorry about the topic.

Its supposed to say

“No Unlocking new stuff = no reason to play more than 30 minutes”

In COD BO2 for example, I am enjoying the part of unlocking stuff, such as attachments, perks, weapons, classes, killstreaks.

In DB, it feels 2004’ish to not have unlocks.

If I want to play the “SMG run-gun / rambo / suicide” role*, in DB, it seems I just unlock another medic character with slightly different abilites and weapon.
I do like the self-reviving medic a lot. Its the only class I’ve played successfully.

But, I do miss unlocking:

  • red dot sight
  • extra ammo
  • larger ammo
  • fast reload
  • silencer
  • skins (in BO2 they have the system of if you unlock all skins, you get gold, and if you get gold in all weapons in a class, like SMG’s you then get diamond available, which is the only “grinding” (that felt like grinding) I’ve ever enjoyed I think.
  • cool stuff like the milimeter scanner, and other OP stuff :smiley: (which you need to counter by haveing “coldblood” perk to avoid being seen from milimeter scanner)
  • = (where I goin all in, either dying instantly, or killing off 3-4 people if lucky, and hopefully being revived by another medic, to be able to repeat, it over and over, till ammo runs out)

I know its beta. But Im not sure what is planned.
I’ve seen the “cards” but I dont get them.
I know how it works in DOTA/MOBA genre, where you have pre-designed characters, which is kinda ok.
But what I LOVE, and I know other people LOVE, is to create your OWN character by selecting your own perks, attachements, etc.

In COD BO2, I love attachments, and with the system “pick 10” or Im willing to use “wild card” where I gain extra cool ability, like a 3rd attachment, if I then approve of just getting 9 total stuff.
So I always remove pistol, and grenade, to get more attachments, and more perks,

Here let me explain by this image. This is my PUB Search and destroy class with SMG. Its totally wrecking people since its TAILORED after my own playstyle. :slight_smile:
http://i.imgur.com/PySodj2.png (non DB image)

PySodj2.png1920x1080

TL;DR
Without unlocks in different forms, whatever they will be, I guess it can be a kinda big factor in why people only play 30 min. I dont know if it is.

Also sorry in anyone get offended by mentioning COD BO2.
I dont know SD’s vision for unlocks for DB.

(montheponies) #2

Personally I detest unlocks - but cant argue that plays to our human desire to feel like we’ve accomplished something, even if that something is as worthless as a cosmetic graphic change on a gun. I’m also a bit unclear on how the whole Merc / Card / Loot thing works, but that’s really down to laziness as I just really want to play a good team based shooter…

(Anti) #3

We’ve mentioned it before on this forum but for the benefit of newer folks, we have plans to extend the load-out system to give more customization, with the likes of weapon attachments being included. What is in game right now is just the very first step in building this system, there will be lots of additions and lots of balancing of what we already have.

What we want to avoid is an unlock grind that you have to do for months on end to get all the gameplay choices you want. I’d say a game like BF4 has a longer progression curve like this, but we want to avoid that where we can. Our goal is to have a shorter curve for things like Mercs, modes and gameplay affecting content, so within a short amount of time playing you’ll have access to a lot of stuff and have plenty of choice. Beyond that point progression will be more about earning reputation or status content, things like aesthetic items, avatars etc.

#4

[QUOTE=Anti;508190]We’ve mentioned it before on this forum but for the benefit of newer folks, we have plans to extend the load-out system to give more customization, with the likes of weapon attachments being included. What is in game right now is just the very first step in building this system, there will be lots of additions and lots of balancing of what we already have.

What we want to avoid is an unlock grind that you have to do for months on end to get all the gameplay choices you want. I’d say a game like BF4 has a longer progression curve like this, but we want to avoid that where we can. Our goal is to have a shorter curve for things like Mercs, modes and gameplay affecting content, so within a short amount of time playing you’ll have access to a lot of stuff and have plenty of choice. Beyond that point progression will be more about earning reputation or status content, things like aesthetic items, avatars etc.[/QUOTE]

I try to keep up with old threads, but there is a ton of posts, so much thanks for mentioning it again, for me who havent been active lately.

Yeah I agree with you, that slow unlock grinds are very bad, as in BF.

“so within a short amount of time playing you’ll have access to a lot of stuff and have plenty of choice”
Sounds great. Its very much like this in COD BO2 as well. (Sorry for comparing! heh but I have over 300 hours in COD BO2 and dont play much else (given upp on moba lately), and since COD WAW the COD series has been my substiute for ET-ish weapon and moment style.)

“Beyond that point progression will be more about earning reputation or status content, things like aesthetic items, avatars etc.”
Cool. (I understand that. For example, in COD BO2 I have the player “background / banner” set to a Search and destroy image, that I earned, so people can see I like & have played search and destroy a lot. First 200 or so hours of BO2 I played S&D ONLY LOL!)

Thanks again for answer.

(Kendle) #5

Exactly my feelings, I’m not even bothering with the threads discussing cards / unlocks / XP etc. because I’m not the slightest bit interested in any of it. I guess I’ll have to come to terms with it to a degree when the game goes live but for now I’m trying to pretend it’s not there.

Remains to be seen what effect it’ll have on the game when it goes live, I’ve always considered grinding for unlocks to be diametrically opposed to good objective based team games, ET especially suffered from it in the early days (I still remember being TK’ed planting a charge so a “team-mate” could plant and get the XP instead). ETPro and “XP off” was the saviour of ET IMO, I don’t expect there to be any such hope for DB.

(tokamak) #6

“XP off” was the saviour of ET IMO, I don’t expect there to be any such hope for DB.

It was the end of ET.

(Humate) #7

I still remember being TK’ed planting a charge so a “team-mate” could plant and get the XP instead

Happened in etqw as well :frowning: Wasn’t common though.

Cant say I’m a massive fan of persistent unlocks, prefer the temp ones as the match evolves.
But its not a big deal imo, if it does end up being grindy. The game is pretty enjoyable in its stripped down state as it is, as long as the core stays fun. its fine.

As for codblops, i remember players telling me off for not “prestiging” :frowning: I have no idea why though.

#8

[QUOTE=Kendle;508197]Exactly my feelings, I’m not even bothering with the threads discussing cards / unlocks / XP etc. because I’m not the slightest bit interested in any of it. I guess I’ll have to come to terms with it to a degree when the game goes live but for now I’m trying to pretend it’s not there.

Remains to be seen what effect it’ll have on the game when it goes live, I’ve always considered grinding for unlocks to be diametrically opposed to good objective based team games, ET especially suffered from it in the early days (I still remember being TK’ed planting a charge so a “team-mate” could plant and get the XP instead). ETPro and “XP off” was the saviour of ET IMO, I don’t expect there to be any such hope for DB.[/QUOTE]

First a joke:

gXTaGhs.jpg582x768

Second:
Im on your side I believe.

I do see the problem of XP methods that shift focus from the goals in the game, to xp-whoring as prio #1.

So that is one problem, which could maybe be solved by doing scripts in game, of how often and how much XP you get from reviving / giving HP to the same guy twice. What I’ve seen SD are working in game to solve such things. You maybe could write suggestion to SD on the situations where you think people will stop play for obj and ruin the moments for the sake of XP.

Seems like SD want to avoid XP-whoring with the BF-statement avove by Anti. I dont know how to judge the statement correctly or how it means in specific situations.

Thirdly:
Light XP-whoring, has in my experience been fun. Bling bling bling, unlocks. But yeah, when it not light, and especially is like BF or other hard gridning, its really bad and boring.

(Violator) #9

Not a big fan of persistent unlocks / grinding either. I much preferred ET/QW which had per-campaign locks but they were reset at the end. Tbh I’m not really the target audience for FTP - I prefer to get everything out of the bag. My favourite class is probably Bushwhacker but I now have to get to level 16 (can’t remember the exact number) which is too much of a grind.

On a side note, persistent locks if we do have to have them should only be side-grades (I think this is what DB is going for which is a good thing to avoid P2W) or you are overpowering players who are able to get to the overpowered state quicker than others.

(tokamak) #10

[QUOTE=Humate;508199]Happened in etqw as well :frowning: Wasn’t common though.

Cant say I’m a massive fan of persistent unlocks, prefer the temp ones as the match evolves.[/QUOTE]

That card augmentations should grow in power through the match. Each augmentation has a base advantage at tier 1, and then goes from say, 25% to 66% to 100% in level 1, 2 and 3 respectively.

(Mustang) #11

I imagine most people would have their preferred attachments and stuff, so the simple answer is to let people choose what to unlock next instead of restricting to a specific order.

(Erkin31) #12

Ohhh please no. For me, too many unlocks can kill a game (balancing, game without identity).
I really hate this in COD and BD. I liked the simplicity of Titanfall for this.

DB has already a lot of content.

(warbie) #13

Add me to the camp on not being a fan of unlocks. I’ve yet to play a fps that doesn’t use them to mask a lack of depth beneath.

#14

W:ET has unlocks. Remember?

Unlocking improved abilites when leveling up.

  • your ammo load-out will include one extra clip of ammunition.
  • reload your weapons 35% faster.
  • SMG spread is reduced by 35% while Pistol recoil is halved.
  • dual-wield akimbo pistols.
  • a pair of Binoculars which can be used to reconnoiter enemy positions. Only Covert Ops can use Binoculars to spot Land Mines for their team-mates.
  • Stamina bar to recharge at 160% of the normal rate.
  • effectively increases your maximum Health by 15 points
  • able to sense enemy Land Mines without the aid of Binoculars. Any mines within a certain range will appear as translucent outlines in your field of vision. Unless you’re a Covert Ops, you won’t be able to spot them for your team-mates.
  • Firing a Panzerfaust or Mortar will now take 1/3rd less Power Bar than previously.
  • your overheating Emplaced or Mobile MG will cool at twice the normal rate
  • You’ve been lugging heavy chunks of metal around the battlefield for so long, your speed penalty is now decreased
  • you are now able to handle a Light Weapon in one handed slot, freeing up the two handed slot for an alternate Heavy Weapon. This means you can now carry an SMG and a Mortar, for instance
  • an extra ammunition clip and grenade
  • 2 syringes extra max ammo, 2 extra on spawn plus Medic pack only takes 15% Power Bar instead of 25%
  • Syringes now return fallen team-mates to full health
  • To equip the adrenalin shot press the Special Weapon 1 key (5 by default) twice and then press the primary fire key to inject the Adrenaline syringe. Doing so will impart a temporary bonus in Health and Stamina. For 10 seconds you will only suffer half damage from any attack but your Stamina Bar will not decrease at all even if you are sprinting. This will give you the ability to rush into and out of strongly defended areas which may prove of critical tactical importance.
  • four extra Rifle Grenade rounds and four extra Hand Grenades
  • arm and defuse Land Mines and Dynamite in half the time
  • constructing and repairing objects and setting Dynamite or Land Mines uses 1/3rd less Power Bar charge than normal
  • Flak Jackets which provides the player with 50% damage deflection from explosive weapons
  • Field Ops earn 1XP for giving one of your team’s players an Ammo Pack. You’ll earn 3XP for every enemy player you kill with an Air Strike, 4XP for killing them with an Artillery Strike and 5XP for destroying an Objective with either
  • Every Ammo Pack you distribute will contain an extra magazine clip and issuing the Ammo Pack will only deplete your Power Bar by 15% instead of 25%
  • Calling in an Artillery or Air Strike uses up only 2/3 of your Power Bar
  • Each Air Strike now has two aircraft incoming and each Artillery Strike lasts twice as long
  • you can identify disguised enemy Covert Ops. Placing your cross-hairs over an Enemy infiltrator will result in a Disguised Enemy prompt and their location will be highlighted on your team’s Command Map
  • Each Ammo Pack you get from a Field Ops or Ammo Cabinet includes one extra clip of ammunition for your Scoped Weapon
  • Your expertise allows you to use your Satchel Charges and Smoke Grenades more often: your Power Bar usage will be reduced by 1/3rd.
  • Your mastery of the Sniper’s art results in a 50% reduction in both recoil jump and weapon sway with Scoped Weapons.
  • Your expertise with the knife allows you an instant kill with any backstab.

Medals at end of game
Stats

The End Results show the best players from either team in each field of achievement in that map. Medals are awarded to a team’s best player in each category. Medals are per team, End Results are overall.

Highest Fragger: most kills
Highest Experience: highest XP
Highest Ranking Officer: highest rank
Most Highly Decorated: most medals
Highest Battle Sense: highest Battle Sense
Best Engineer: Best Engineer
Best Medic: Best Medic
Best Field Ops: Best Field Ops
Best Light Weapons: Best Light Weapons
Best Soldier: Best Soldier
Best Covert Ops: Best Covert Ops
Highest Accuracy: Best ratio of shots fired to hits
I Ain’t Got No Friends Award: Most team kills
Welcome Newbie: Lowest score under 100

Source:
http://www.splashdamage.com/wolfguide/html/manual.html#L_SkillsAndRewards
(from http://www.splashdamage.com/wolfguide/default.htm)

CS:GO has normal pub mode, and ranked match mode.

TL;DR

DB should imo have things that

  • “pub people” like, on “ranked pub servers”
    and
  • what “pro people” like on “pro ranked” “match servers”.

And both player types get happy.

(Rank can mean CS:GO/MOBA ranking as in W/L ratio,
or also mean, COD ranked server = stats on = “progress” mode activated

Please understanding that different strokes for different folks.
Or is a DB a PROS ONLY game? Like QuakeLive/Quake3? Where “newbs”* never go to unless forced.

*Casual players who will have 0-50 in Q3.

Is it me, or do some players not see the whole picture? The need for different designs & modes for different players (pub play vs match play).
Just answering “I dont like it”, is kind of… well, short sighted or something? Or maybe I misunderstand some of you here.

(INF3RN0) #15

I’m not that excited by unlocks and all that jazz, but the rest of the world is… so it does have value.

(tokamak) #16

Knowing what you want should be encouraged and rewarded. Dabbling and doubting should require work or payment.

(warbie) #17

I remember. I wasn’t a fan though - at least it didn’t add anything interesting or of value to me. Luckily there was enough RTCW left in ET for to overlook these things :slight_smile: And to be fair these were temporary unlocks that only lasted for the duration of the map/campaign.

Unlocking stuff is fine if the game beneath is decent. But how many recent games have you played that feel finished once you’ve unlocked everything you want? Suddenly their short comings hit you in the face. Look back to the glory days of PC fps when people were playing TFC, RTCW/ET, Quake, UT, DoD, CS etc etc - 1000s of players pumping 1000s of hours into these games just trying to climb the skill curve. These days we don’t get a skill curve - we get unlocks and achievements and, worst of all, prestiging. Hey, now you can ignore that this game is basic as hell all over again, grats!

#18

[QUOTE=warbie;508240]I remember. I wasn’t a fan though - at least it didn’t add anything interesting or of value to me. Luckily there was enough RTCW left in ET for to overlook these things :slight_smile: And to be fair these were temporary unlocks that only lasted for the duration of the map/campaign.

Unlocking stuff is fine if the game beneath is decent. But how many recent games have you played that feel finished once you’ve unlocked everything you want? Suddenly their short comings hit you in the face. Look back to the glory days of PC fps when people were playing TFC, RTCW/ET, Quake, UT, DoD, CS etc etc - 1000s of players pumping 1000s of hours into these games just trying to climb the skill curve. These days we don’t get a skill curve - we get unlocks and achievements and, worst of all, prestiging. Hey, now you can ignore that this game is basic as hell all over again, grats![/QUOTE]

What about what I wrote about a “pub mode”, and a “match ranked mode” as in CS:GO.

Makes both “pubbers” and “pros” happy, right?

Edit:

I dont know if SD will make 2 modes like this in DB.
But it seem logical that they do. I shouldnt assume it though I guess.

(tokamak) #19

Seperate pub and pro is a cop out. No successful F2P does that.

People should always have the feeling that the match they’re currently playing could as well have been played in the world final.

(Erkin31) #20

JBRAA:
The unlocks of ET and COD are not comparables.

  1. They are not persistent in ET.
  2. The weapons in ET are in a limited quantity and are well balanced.
    You haven’t the impression that some weapons are added only for the sake to purpose a lot of content. I preferer a limited content well balanced and only designed for the gameplay.
  3. Weapons attachement are also limited in ET.

Just answering “I dont like it”, is kind of… well, short sighted or something? Or maybe I misunderstand some of you here.

I say “I don’t like” because it’s only my opinion. My objective isn’t to have a FPS with a lot of players like COD/BF, this is the objective of SplashDamage (and I understand it). My objective is to find a game fun to play :slight_smile:

So yeah, my opinions are pretty selfish because the features which could (maybe) attract new players will make the game bad to me.

But again i’m not against the unlocks, the unlocks of Titanfall was ok for me. I’m against a spam of content, with a gamedesign broken behind, and a FPS with no other objectives than purpose as much as possible weapons and weapon attachements.

(I don’t talk about the stats and weapons skins, this is an other thing)