No to "Noobtube"

(zXSwordXz) #1

I really hope SD don’t put any noobtube in this game. Base on the euro expo comments, the have a grenade launcher in the game. I really hope the limit the power of it and don’t make overpowered. So far I like everything I’ve heard about this game expect the grenade launcher. I really hope they balance the classes and don’t make one of them more powerful than the other. I can’t wait to play this game…

(tokamak) #2

It’s likely that the fastest body types can’t use ‘medium’ guns like the grenade launcher, that’s got to be worth something surely.

(Zhou Yu) #3

Also, this was an alpha presentation, so balancing hasn’t even really been considered yet.

(Rahdo) #4

Yup, like i just mentioned in the other thread, the GL was purposefully made way overpowered for the demo just to make Paul look a little more bad ass (I’m surprised how often people fail to notice that we also made him invincible and gave him infinite ammo, just to ensure the flow of the demo doesn’t get messed up). Don’t worry, in the real game, they should be pretty well balanced against all the normal hitscan guns :slight_smile:

(darthmob) #5

Argh I don’t like the term noobtube. It stands for everything that is wrong with the CoD series.

Did you play ET zXSwordXz? Many players named the riflegrenades cheap but those usually didn’t play with it and were on the receiving end. It needed a fair share of skill to be good with (and luck as well but you can’t depend on that).

I do wonder if the GL works more like CoD or more like ET in Brink, Rahdo? I guess the most important difference is that the grenades explode on impact in CoD and unless you do a long distance shot only on second impact in ET.

(zXSwordXz) #6

Thanks for the feedback guys and yes, I under that it is in Alpha stage but the thought of a grenade launcher just bring back bad memory of COD series. I can’t stand the COD series because of all the noobtube. It no longer require much shooting skills to have kills in game like COD:MW with all the random grenade and grenade launcher. I’m a bit sad to hear about the iron sight. I really feel IS just slows down any fps gameplay. Yes, I’ve played ET and I actually love it. Lets hope SD do a really good job and make this an awesome game and stay the hell away from the COD concepts. I wish they give us a demo before release to test this baby out.

(tokamak) #7

Aye the grenade spam ruined Raven Shield as well.

However, iron sights are awesome, don’t touch them. What’s wrong with slowing down a shooter?

(zXSwordXz) #8

I didn’t say anything was wrong with IS. It just slow down gameplay and restrict different movement. I like the idea of strafe jumping and shooting at the same time or doing a combo of things like bouncing around while still have the ability to shoot. I find it more fun to have a crosshair instead of an iron sight. With IS, it require a more patience gameplay instead of a fun run and gun style gameplay. I also understand that alot of fans like the IS in game because it give them more precision.

(tokamak) #9

Iron Sights don’t need to replace the crosshair. Just have both, in real life you have the advantage of ‘feeling’ the angle of your gun, which you don’t have as a player that’s why a crosshair is there to compensate.

It’s should just always be a trade off that you make based on the situation. Some situations require run and gun, and some situations require slowing down and taking time to aim. The real skill lies in adjusting between all these possible approaches on the fly.

(zXSwordXz) #10

You’re right, both option will be really good. This way everyone have a choice on how to play the game.

(RoryGreen) #11

They just need to make the grenade launcher a skill to use. The problem with the call of duty GLs is they were to easy (point, shoot, 2 kills). If the GL takes skill to use them I’m happy.

(deadlights) #12

Yup nade spam is a quick way to ruin a game. Imo, if a player can carry 3 nades and if he has a GL equiped he has 3 choices:

  1. Throw 3 nades.
  2. Shoot 3 nades.
  3. Combo of throw and shoot

That could cut back on spam alot. And it would make it more tactical imo.

(tokamak) #13

A player should be able to specialise in grenadier if he wants to. But that would mean other players would have huge advantages in other fields.

(10chankc2) #14

I think grenade launchers should be removed as well, if their too strong the game is unbalanced if its too weak then they aren’t fun to use

(DarkangelUK) #15

A grenade launcher is a grenade launcher, are there any examples of a multiplayer game where a nade launcher has been well balanced? I don’t mean that as a rhetorical question, just wondering if anyone has any examples. You’re always gonna get the 2 arguments, 1 shouting it’s a ‘noobtube’ (no offence OP), and the others saying it takes skill to master.

(tokamak) #16

TF2 has a well balanced grenade launcher. The biggest balance in that thing is that doesn’t chuck the grenades that far and aren’t thrown with such velocity.

(Rahdo) #17

I’m mostly interested at the moment in balancing them through damage control. If someone opts to have a GL, I’d hate for them to have a really low ammo count, so right now we’re experimenting with explode on contact, surprisingly low splash damage radius, but medium-high damage, so they can be useful, but only if you’re really skillful, and only at certain times. Thoughts?

(tokamak) #18

I always thought it was a bit strange that grenades could discern the difference between hitting a wall and hitting a living being, yet all shooters have that same mechanic, they bounce off walls and explode when in contact with a player.

This doesn’t have to stronger or weaker than grenades that just always explode against anything after all, a grenade that misses a player lives to explode somewhere else instead of being wasted on a wall. A grenade that explodes against anything will function as a mini-rocket launcher, where you can use the splash damage on the floor instead of having to make direct hits. So I guess the ‘explode on human/mechanic contact’ is fine as it is right now. It’s not the most important point.

Anyway, the main reason why people hate grenade launchers is that they simply don’t stand a chance to do something back. It’s a one-hit kill that you can’t dodge. No other weapon has that, even the rocket launcher had a short delay in shooting (and lowering the damage radius doesn’t change that).

It’s important to determine the purpose of a grenade launcher. A grenade launcher is used to clear out choke points and not to get easy kills against players. It’s mainly an offensive weapon meant to disrupt defences.

What I would do is simply make the grenade launcher weaker but give it a higher rate of fire. This means players can jump for cover against a ‘barrage’ of grenades. This means grenades become a ‘control’ weapon. You force players to move out of highly defensive positions, and especially turret batteries don’t stand a chance.

This also makes the GL very effective at clearing out mines and such.

So instead of loading one highly lethal grenade, a player can load six (or maybe just four) weaker grenades. With the same loading mechanics of a shotgun (so you can quickly load one grenade, but spent longer loading the full cabinet). And maybe if you’re thinking about an upgrade (like gained by an engineer?), give the player the (temporarily, one shot-only) ability to fire all grenades in one go.

There’s not much wrong with a high blast radius, as long as it takes 2-3 grenades to kill a player you can make that radius quite wide, which would only serve it’s main disruption purpose and still remain lethal against groups.

Also giving it a push-back in the explosion that pushes players away a little makes it A: less lethal because it’s harder to make a second hit and B: Ideal to disrupt objective processes and turret repairs and such. In QW it’s easy to clear out a group of engineers repairing a bridge with the GL, though, it would be more fun if you simply interrupted what they were doing instead of killing them outright.

(DarkangelUK) #19

As tokamak said, the problem most have is the nade is more or less a one hit kill weapon that leaves you little to no chance of avoiding. Would it be practical to substitute some of the damage for another negative effect such as visual disorientation (motion blur), distorted sound and accuracy thrown off when shooting for a very brief period, so it acts more like a flash bang type of nade? Obviously it would still deal damage, and if you’re down on your health as it is, would cause you to die, but having a decent amount of health means you can still dive for cover and have a chance to survive.

I also like Halo’s different types of grenade, the standard frag grenade for bouncing off walls and round corners, the plasma nade for stickies onto players if aimed right, and the spike grenade that you throw and latch onto walls and players.

(tokamak) #20

Yeah, if you add slight puffs of smoke, not enough to let a single grenade give cover, then pumping 6 grenades into one spot should give you enough cover to storm it.

And I think the accuracy is a brilliant point. If you can make someone’s weapon spread fly high when you hit them with a grenade (would be quite realistic as well), then the grenade doesn’t need to have high damage in order to be effective. Would also be great if you could make turrets less accurate if you hit them with a grenade. That would make a grenadier a very valuable asset in a team and highly promote squad-based teamwork (a medium guy could partially incapicate a bunch of defenders so the light guy can sprint past or the heavy guy can enter and clear everything out with his big gun).