Guys, what do you do about the section 3.3.8 in the EULA implicitly forbidding firewalls, routers, and tunnels?
Everybody just ignores the EULA or what?
No Firewall anymore?
foo1
(foo_)
#1
foo1
(foo_)
#4
(Not even talking about “data preservation” laws - those would conflict b/o data mining, but probably covered by “applicable laws”).
I quote from the EULA which are displayed to me when I want to start after the recent update:
3.3. Restrictions. You hereby acknowledge and agree that you shall not use the Software for any purpose other than your personal, non-commercial entertainment purposes, and that you shall use the Software in accordance with all applicable laws, rules and regulations. Except as expressly provided herein, you shall not, and shall not permit any third party to:
3.3.8. Intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Warchest, or its designees, in any way, including, without limitation, through protocol emulation, tunneling, packet sniffing, modifying or adding components to the Software, use of a ?data mining? utility program to intercept, colled, read or ?mine? information generated by the Software, or in any other way utilize a technique now known or hereafter developed that would allow for or otherwise make available unauthorized play of the Game or other use of the Software;
(emphasis by me)
The firewall and router are provided by a third party; and even if you’d count the firewall I installed as “me”, the ISP owns the router, so that’s definitely a third party.
- Every Firewall needs to do interception and packet sniffing: which port, which connection, and usually also which program is using it.
- NAT used in many home Routers modifies the packet headers, changing the addresses used, and sometimes port as well. Depending on ISP setup, there may be also tunnelling involved.
- Some routers also automatically do statistics, which connected machine causes what traffic etc - that would be data mining, collecting and reading information generated by the software.
While I don’t see any harm in doing any of the above, and it is done routinely by about all home setup, we’re required to agree to legally binding EULA which forbid us from doing so. Dafuq?
Are we seriously required to turn off our firewalls for playing Dirty Bomb?
(and change the ISP / get a different router)
foo1
(foo_)
#5
Weird thing about it:
above quote is from the Dirty Bomb EULA displayed by Steam, not before 2017-06-08.
It says at the top:
WARCHEST LIMITED - END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
Last Revision: 9th February 2017
Effective Date: 9th February 2017
On the Warchest website, I find EULA with same heading, same date - but different content.
warchest.com/terms/dirtybomb
I would have to click “I agree” on above quoted version, though.
henki000
(henki000)
#6
I’m not a law expert, but I think this part of EULA is referring to devices or communication protocols owned by Warchest or its designees.
foo1
(foo_)
#7
If it was about devices owned/rented by Warchest, why would we/I get this EULA to sign? It’s an EULA displayed by Steam after the update. And the communication protocols take place on the player’s internet connections.
Nail
(Nail)
#8
don’t like the EULA, leave game, very simple
it doesn’t mean what you’re implying and NO, I won’t explain, learn English
henki000
(henki000)
#9
Firewall = Warchest does not own your home network. You dont own data generated by software. Interception and packet sniffing means you can actually analyze that data or even better, to use that data for your own good. You need decoding tools for that. You are not allowed to hijack or alter that data to cause unauthorize play. For example, you could otherwise intercept your room mate dirty bomb game session and start using his account to ruin his game.
NAT = No, you are not allowed to generate hundreds of dirty bomb account with different IP’s and start mining credits. If your NAT gets banned, all the devices under that IP space gets banned. There are rules set by ISP. For example I can generate only 5 different IP in my home, otherwise I could get blocked because messing with their IP address space. All ISP providers have certain amount of IP addresses that they share to their customers. You commonly use NAT to link all your devices under the same IP space to save IPv4 addresses from ISP. But even making 5 dirty bomb accounts violates EULA. If ISP provides would allow people to use as many IPs as they want, it would fill all possible IPv4 addresses too fast. Those 2 protocols (IPv4/IPv6) are not designed to be interoperable, complicating the transition to IPv6. Its also about the money, because ISP providers should make investments to new devices, causing highly competetive market prices to go up. And of course there is also point of identification of illegal pirate network traffic etc.
Routers = Yes, they collect data. But they dont decode it to any readable form. Routers collect metadata which is different thing. Thats why they are referring to “communication protocol”.
I’m not sure if this makes any sense.
Eox
(Eox)
#10
@henki000 said:
Firewall = Warchest does not own your home network. You dont own data generated by software. Interception and packet sniffing means you can actually analyze that data or even better, to use that data for your own good. You need decoding tools for that. You are not allowed to hijack or alter that data to cause unauthorize play. For example, you could otherwise intercept your room mate dirty bomb game session and start using his account to ruin his game.NAT = No, you are not allowed to generate hundreds of dirty bomb account with different IP’s and start mining credits. If your NAT gets banned, all the devices under that IP space gets banned. There are rules set by ISP. For example I can generate only 5 different IP in my home, otherwise I could get blocked because messing with their IP address space. All ISP providers have certain amount of IP addresses that they share to their customers. You commonly use NAT to link all your devices under the same IP space to save IPv4 addresses from ISP. But even making 5 dirty bomb accounts violates EULA. If ISP provides would allow people to use as many IPs as they want, it would fill all possible IPv4 addresses too fast. Those 2 protocols (IPv4/IPv6) are not designed to be interoperable, complicating the transition to IPv6. Its also about the money, because ISP providers should make investments to new devices, causing highly competetive market prices to go up. And of course there is also point of identification of illegal pirate network traffic etc.
Routers = Yes, they collect data. But they dont decode it to any readable form. Routers collect metadata which is different thing. Thats why they are referring to “communication protocol”.
I’m not sure if this makes any sense.
Sounds like a very solid explanation. Great work. 
Xenithos
(Xenithos)
#12
@Nail said:
don’t like the EULA, leave game, very simpleit doesn’t mean what you’re implying and NO, I won’t explain, learn English
I can explain though if you need:
The entire point of that area of the EULA is actually regarding malicious intent and intentionally getting things out of a game that were not intended. If you are using the game for any means other than playing DB or learning more strictly about just DB universe, or inversely following data the games gives then you are in violation. This is not only about protecting the IP that Warchest holds, but also disabling you from “legally” following other players or gaining information that they didn’t give you.
I shall bold the relevant previous phrase of that EULA:
Restrictions. You hereby acknowledge and agree that you shall not use the Software for any purpose other than your personal, non-commercial entertainment purposes, and that you shall use the Software in accordance with all applicable laws, rules and regulations.
The third party, is you willingly and intentionally doing so, Routers, etc, and the systems the internet works on has rules and laws it is to follow. If you do your job, and they do theirs, then you shouldn’t have need to worry.
K1X455
(K1X455)
#13
EULA is then self conflicted because Win8/Win10 has built in Firewall in the first place. Using third party firewalls (such as those associated with Anti-Virus/Anti-Malware) does not constitute breach of EULA. Xenithos is correct in pointing out that the EULA’s point of deterring, if not preventing malicious intent.
I think it’s possible to circumvent any commercial EULA (game ones are easy to get) by getting legal permission from your local court, but you’ll have to prove your intent and actions; you’ll be strictly monitored in your activity by another party in order to “enforce reasonable privacy and commercial rules”.
Third party software such as OBS, Plays.TV or ShadowPlay from NVidia are allowed… They can be used to record cheats and advertise their success and that’s not a breach of EULA either…however, the use of LatencyMonitor is still being questioned by some as "process intrussive* third party programs that analyse your computers’ activity for diagnostic purposes.
@henki000 said:
But even making 5 dirty bomb accounts violates EULA.
I’m not sure if this makes any sense.
In our case, we (three individual parties), made three independent accounts for purposes of diagnostics (because we’re chasing DPC stacking problems). We are not violating any EULA because we have no intent of making profit, gaining advantage or causing inconvenience to any other player and our sole purpose for individual account creation on one terminal is for diagnostic purposes to be used in reporting to Splash Damage so appropriate action can be taken to rectify a problem. Sad stories followed.
foo1
(foo_)
#14
@henki000 said:
Firewall = Warchest does not own your home network.
Agree.
You dont own data generated by software.
Disagree, but not the point here.
Interception and packet sniffing means you can actually analyze that data or even better, to use that data for your own good. You need decoding tools for that.
I disagree; interception is what every firewall and NAT does, without any understanding of the internal protocol(s).
You are not allowed to hijack or alter that data to cause unauthorize play. For example, you could otherwise intercept your room mate dirty bomb game session and start using his account to ruin his game.
I agree, and that’s probably the intent here - which is totally OK with me.
It’s just not what it says.
Routers = Yes, they collect data. But they dont decode it to any readable form.
Routers collect metadata which is different thing. Thats why they are referring to “communication protocol”.
This is a helpful point. Thank you.
I’m not sure if this makes any sense.
Took me a bit, but it does now to me.
foo1
(foo_)
#15
@K1X455 said:
EULA is then self conflicted because Win8/Win10 has built in Firewall in the first place.
That was one of my concerns, yes.
Not that it was ever the intention - but what matters first from legal perspective is the wording. To clarify intention, you need a court and all sorts of hassle.
Third party software such as OBS, Plays.TV or ShadowPlay from NVidia are allowed…
They can be used to record cheats and advertise their success and that’s not a breach of EULA either
Well, that’s your interpretation. I would like to see it the same way, but cannot find proof in the wording.
We are not violating any EULA because we have no intent of making profit, gaining advantage or causing inconvenience to any other player
Your intent is certainly OK IMHO; but again: the wording says differently.
Except as expressly provided herein
3.3.8. Intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Warchest, or its designees, in any way,
without limitation,
…
“without limitation”. “in any way”. This is not limited to malicious intent.
I would love if you can prove otherwise (without resorting to insults).
foo1
(foo_)
#16
@K1X455 said:
EULA is then self conflicted because Win8/Win10 has built in Firewall in the first place.
That was one of my concerns, yes.
Not that it was ever the intention - but what matters first from legal perspective is the wording. To clarify intention, you need a court and all sorts of hassle.
Third party software such as OBS, Plays.TV or ShadowPlay from NVidia are allowed…
They can be used to record cheats and advertise their success and that’s not a breach of EULA either
Well, that’s your interpretation. I would like to see it the same way, but cannot find proof in the wording.
We are not violating any EULA because we have no intent of making profit, gaining advantage or causing inconvenience to any other player
Your intent is certainly OK IMHO; but again: the wording says differently.
Except as expressly provided herein
3.3.8. Intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Warchest, or its designees, in any way,
without limitation,
…
“without limitation”. “in any way”. This is not limited to malicious intent.
I would love if you can prove otherwise (without resorting to insults).
K1X455
(K1X455)
#17
@foo_ said:
…
“without limitation”. “in any way”. This is not limited to malicious intent.I would love if you can prove otherwise (without resorting to insults).
Any reasonable court can make exclusions to wordings, and can make interpretations for purpose of clarity. If you’re concerned about lexical arrangement of EULAs, you’ll have to be advised by legal counsel as to what actions you can do and cannot do. Otherwise, just #PlayDirty.
Nail
(Nail)
#18
“the ISP owns the router, so that’s definitely a third party.”
maybe in your world, I own my router
and your interpretation is still wrong