Nitros augment on Rhino needs a nerf

[christryhard]

Because it is the ONLY loadout card that has it and on top of that, it has unshakable and cool, both of which are very good for him, too. If you reduced the effects of nitros to something like 20%, people wouldn’t feel so cheated when they get any of the other loadout cards.

[servuskal]

I personally dont play rhino but wouldnt it be kinda stupid to nerf the whole merc just to balance his loadouts among each other? As far as I heard the general opinon is that he his pretty weak already.

Other from that I really hate it too that many mercs have one god tier card and rest of their loadouts is just utter crap.

[Amerika]

Because it is the ONLY loadout card that has it and on top of that, it has unshakable and cool, both of which are very good for him, too. If you reduced the effects of nitros to something like 20%, people wouldn’t feel so cheated when they get any of the other loadout cards.

It’s the one augment that should be on a lot of his cards as it allows him to actually be mobile and still use the minigun as opposed to sitting in a corner using right click somewhere. Unshakable is on a lot of his cards IIRC and cool does nothing for him specifically that it doesn’t do for anybody else.

[christryhard]

Then they should nerf the augment but increase the base acceleration for the minigun. The R93 is by far the best rhino loadout because of one single augment. This needs to be addressed.

[Grave_Knight]

If they nerf it they should buff his minigun proportionate to the nerf.

[doxjq]

The n2o isn’t necessarily the best one. Why? Most people don’t realise with Rhino is that you can keep his gun spinning while you’re not shooting simply by holding down your zoom / iron sight button, so as long as that gun is spinning the perk is essentially useless because from that point in time his gun is going to fire instantly.

Originally I thought that n2o perk was crazy aswell, until my friend told me about this function, and now I’m realising the perk that lets him keep the gun firing for 40% longer is way better for holding off enemies.

But you can argue this both ways, or even more. Both perks have strengths in different areas. One is better for one on one combat, the other is better for stopping a swarm of enemies at once.

Rhino is fine. Even with a 50% faster spin up he still suffers a lot against enemies with higher HP and full auto guns if they hit your upper body/head. Fragger and Thunder for example.

[Grave_Knight]

@rancid but N2O lets you start shooting mid long jump while holding down the RMB reduces your mobility and jumping altogether (the same as if you were ADSing). You can also start shooting quicker without altering enemies of your presence making for a great surprise (if I hear the spinning I get prepared to jump you).

[doxjq]

I know how it works and what it means, I’m just saying in my experience it’s no total game changer. In fact I’ve done some of my best Rhino work while having the 40% longer spin perk instead. I know the n2o perk is better in one on one situations where you catch each other off guard, but that’s not generally how rhino is used. Most people put him down as riot control if anything, or a brick wall so to speak, where he stands his ground and takes on multiple people at once or where he needs to block off multiple enemies from a certain entrance point.

Any way I wasn’t saying you were wrong, or that I am right, more just throwing a different opinion in the mix

[Amerika]

[quote=“rancid;118224”]The n2o isn’t necessarily the best one. Why? Most people don’t realise with Rhino is that you can keep his gun spinning while you’re not shooting simply by holding down your zoom / iron sight button, so as long as that gun is spinning the perk is essentially useless because from that point in time his gun is going to fire instantly.

Originally I thought that n2o perk was crazy aswell, until my friend told me about this function, and now I’m realising the perk that lets him keep the gun firing for 40% longer is way better for holding off enemies.

But you can argue this both ways, or even more. Both perks have strengths in different areas. One is better for one on one combat, the other is better for stopping a swarm of enemies at once.

Rhino is fine. Even with a 50% faster spin up he still suffers a lot against enemies with higher HP and full auto guns if they hit your upper body/head. Fragger and Thunder for example. [/quote]

The only issue with that sort of strategy is that everyone knows exactly where you are at all times. Bad Rhinos let you know they are sitting there. It allows you to either prepare to face them with grenades, flashbangs, molotovs etc. or to simply avoid you. Only bad players will run into you when using the right click to spin up. That’s why N2O is pretty much essential as it not only allows you to be mobile and use the minigun but also not give away your position. If you give away your position like that you’ll die over and over to guys like me.

[doxjq]

I beg to differ, but each to their own. Even if you’re giving away sound queues it’s not impossible to still hold your own against good players, especially if you’re quick witted and prepared for the obvious. Besides, even if you’re not making sound, most of the time people know where you’re going to be any way.

But regardless, there is no right or wrong answer, but as I said just before:

“Any way I wasn’t saying you were wrong, or that I am right, more just throwing a different opinion in the mix”

[capriRocket]

i wanted to post a reply yesterday stating the same opinion as rancid but got distracted.

im on the other side.
ive always used the ice cold with tough card, i do own the nitros card but i cant see any use in fast spin up because im constantly spinnign anyway.
it also doesnt let me play him offensively because by the time i spinned up im nearly dead anyway.

i play on awareness, i know whats mercs come and at what time.
im constantly partolling and i knife-wall-long-jump away in emergencies.
my position always has a fall back position or spots i can alternate.

they barely kill me with abilities, the thing that gets me killed is when i get overwhelmed, when my tough augment will not be able to regenerate enough health between the never ending stream of encounters.

ice cold saves lifes in this regard, if youre out of minigun on rhino youre dead, id rather be able to deal with a flood of eneimes and not overheat, than spin up fast and run after 2-3 kills.

tough, very underrated, you dont even need a medic, unless you lose something like half your health for a kill.

just my opinion on these two playstyles.

1: i dont care if they hear me, im too smart to let them bomb me.
eventually they have to use bullets, im killing them so fast they barely damage me.
i regen health fast between enemies.

2: i try to be sneaky, i catch them off guard on the first kill, second time i take heavy damage because of spin up time and them being prepared.

i wish i could make nitros work for me and maybe gain some agility but ive tried several times and the results were just too unreliable so if i play tank, i go full tank.

[Amerika]

[quote=“rancid;118284”]I beg to differ, but each to their own. Even if you’re giving away sound queues it’s not impossible to still hold your own against good players, especially if you’re quick witted and prepared for the obvious. Besides, even if you’re not making sound, most of the time people know where you’re going to be any way.

But regardless, there is no right or wrong answer, but as I said just before:

“Any way I wasn’t saying you were wrong, or that I am right, more just throwing a different opinion in the mix”

[/quote]

You can’t prepare for a cooked nade, molotov, grenade launcher or people simply avoiding you because they know where you are. A quick wit does nothing against an explosion to the face.

You can play the way you want to play…there is no wrong way to play when you are doing what you want to do (well, unless you’re trolling people but that’s a different subject). But playing the way you described will get you beat against solid players more than it will help which means it would be wrong in that regard.

[doxjq]

You can’t prepare for a cooked nade, molotov, grenade launcher or people simply avoiding you because they know where you are. A quick wit does nothing against an explosion to the face.

Actually you kinda can. The only time I seem to die with Rhino is when I had 3-4 people rush me at once all nading. Even if I’m sitting inside the first objective part on Underground defending people from planting, whilst spinning, I can still avoid a lot of damage.

It’s just like @capriRocket said. Even though I’m giving my position away, I’m not dumb enough to just fall flank to enemies rushing me with explosives. If anything I’m more aware it’s going to happen so I’m always prepared for it, because I know I’m more vulnerable thus people are going to try and take me out by surprise. Switch to knife, do a wall jump and you can avoid quite a bit. Rhino has 200hp, even if you catch some nade splash damage you’re still plenty healthy.

Plus even if I do die (sure it happens on occasion) it doesn’t usually happen before I’ve been able to pick off 5-6 people, so the trade off is still fine.

Besides, we’re not arguing over perk is better any way, I’m just trying to explain why I personally think n2o doesn’t need a nerf.

[Amerika]

I agree it doesn’t need a nerf. But I would like to see it put into more cards because it allows Rhino to be more mobile and rely less on spinning up the minigun. We agree but for different reasons.

You’ll never convince me that you can magically dodge pre-cooked nades or molotovs and take out 5-6 people while doing it after giving away your exact position a good chunk of the time. You must have the game’s highest KDR!

If you are a US player maybe I’ll see you on server some time.

[Reddeadcap]

Personally, like @Amerika says it should be in more cards as many augments seam to be too situational or just not right for Rhino, Tryhard and Pineapple Juggler which just doesn’t work.

Maybe even more augments that would enhance the minigun’s potency one way or another for instance an augment to make it “lighter” that would make Rhino walk at his regular walk speed with it revved, for a more attacking oriented loadout.

[doxjq]

I live in New Zealand, so unfortunately I’m limited to Aussie servers at a decent (40~ ish) ping.

Tbh if I’m defending with Rhino on enclosed maps like Underground (or the last objective on bridge) it’s not uncommon to go insanely high kdr. The other day I had a 48/5 game with him (I wasn’t there for the whole game, joined late) and then later on the same day I went 24/0 on Trainyard (was a very quick objective game lol) defending the ammo pack hut side. Granted I was backed up by my mate running around after me as Aura on Underground, it made for quite a good combo

But yeah sorry didn’t realise you were agreeing either, but I agree with that too. I was a little bit disappointed to see n2o was only on one card.

This all said I do think the 40% longer + n2o perk together would be a very silly idea haha.

[Chubbster]

I personally want Rhino to pull his mini out quickly than being able to use it longer. I just don’t think it’s wise to have your mini out all the time for you to become a sitting duck.

[Szakalot]

im really surprised people are defending cool over nitro. nitro is an absolute game changer granting rhino enormous mobility. yeah cool is cool on 8v8 pubs where you are hugged by multiple medics and enemies keep poruing through a choke.

in a 5v5 setting rhino cannot hope to always be in position, and there arent enough targets to spray for cool to matter. nitro will give you the ability to push opponents and adjust to the flanks more easily. plus like amerika atated, good players willbe able to easilly pinpoint you location and take you out

[capriRocket]

im not saying you cant hear him out, i only fool around on him and its pretty safe to say most players on pubs dont care about sound.

what im saying is that if youre not playing sitting duck and actually scout for when and what mercs are coming at you then you dont have to senselessly eat explosives or rely on cheecky suprise attacks, nothing can insta kill on sight except maybe some molotov situations.

this doesnt have to be taken into a competitive context. i just find myself utterly defenseless if i have to rely on nitros. who sees who first is very important.

btw, from how far can you hear the spin anyway? do walls in between matter or just pure radius?

at least from my experience im safe in spots like chapel defense stage 1 left upper stairs corridor.

[Dieu-Sama]

In fact it depends on how much you rely on the shotgun and how/how much you use the minigun

If you use it like I like : TF2-like, ambushing as much as possible with crouch jump ans almost never use the shotgun, R93 is mandatory because of Nitro and Unshakable

If you’re spinning the minigun passively at a chokepoint with an healing station at your feet, and rely on shotgun while on the move, AR1 is mandatory for Ahnuhld (great range > damage due to Rhino’s low speed) and Tough while keeping Unshakable

All 7 other loadouts are subpart. Not bad, just subpart. And Ice Cold is useless, since you just can’t hit anything after 3 sec. of firing the minigun because of exponential spread.