Next Movement Test Patch

(DarkangelUK) #141

[QUOTE=Anti;416370]
The important thing, from my point of view at least, is having a movement system that has a lot of skill to it but that doesn’t require difficult or complex interactions to perform. Usage should come from timing, positioning and map knowledge, rather than key combos or managing stamina etc. This should allow for depth and accessibility at the same time.[/QUOTE]

That’s a completely understandable stance and goal to aim for, but don’t expect any tricking communities, movies and dedicated websites to spawn from it. Having a game where the movement system alone can create all of those and thrive in popularity is absolutely fantastic and can swell into its own beast, from what I’ve seen and heard, I doubt that’s going to happen with DB just like it didn’t happen with Brink.

(BR1GAND) #142

Is it possible to simulate W:ET style movement on this engine? Shouldn’t that be the goal? I liked the movement in Quakewars, but understand it was implemented in part because of the size of the maps. Some have their personal preferences, but for an infantry based game wasn’t W:ET style about as good as it gets?

(INF3RN0) #143

Tokamak you spend all your time on forum and little time learning about the games your talking about. I suggest you better your understanding of a game rather than assuming you know exactly what is going on. You don’t know what your talking about and are simply trying to cater the entire system to yourself in the hopes that it’s going to make your dreams of finally proving to yourself that your really better than everyone else. I’m tired of listening to one person calling everyone else mindless/skill-less/dancing/etc because it is simply not true. Anyone who understands and is better at a game than yourself is obviously only achieving that status because of poor mechanics that don’t let your cognitive/tactical/crabwalking/tigerstance skills or whatever it is you jabber on about shine… Go play ravenshield if you don’t want to take the time to understand these games. There’s no point in talking to you because your determined to derail progress with your extreme counter views on almost every topic. Just take a look at your posts- they all consist of repetitive self-indigent verbiage that dismiss everyone else’s points, but your own. Now I suggest you go play more than 5 hours of DB before making 500 posts about it. Thanks.

(tokamak) #144

Please simply address the points. There really is no use in attacking the person making them.

I’m stating that the ease of making yourself a harder target by jittery dancing makes the different situations in which fire-fights happen less meaningful. The dancing works directly against diversity in gunfights.

The argument ‘positioning is still important’ really doesn’t cut it. I’m not saying positioning is no longer important, I’m saying that it’s substantially less important and that the more important dancing becomes, the more position loses it’s weight simply due to the fact that dancing can be used to get yourself out of harm’s way if wrong deciscions are made.

Yeah ETQW is way too fast when it comes to movement. I’m not really sure how DB is relating to W:ET anymore, it’s been too long.

Perhaps ETQW’s weapon mechanics with W:ET’s movement is the best combo.

(Valdez) #145

If you ask me yes that should be the goal. SD if you are afraid of the sprint bar just dont have one, just make the normal movement speed that of the current sprint speed, then fire in some rtcw/et style movement and your good to go. If strafe jumping scares you, do not implement it. If you are afraid of alienating lots of potential players due to the increased tracking requirements of such movement, don’t be. Look at TF2 as an example, f2p game that is successful that does not have dumb downed movement.

(INF3RN0) #146

ZZZZZZZZZ… on to more important topics.

(warbie) #147

Agreed. It’s not just the freedom and excitement of being to move about quickly, it’s how much more interesting it made combat and teamplay. I’m a firm believer in that the slower a game gets the more dumbed down it gets - in pretty much every respect.

(Bananas) #148

[QUOTE=tokamak;416437]Please simply address the points. There really is no use in attacking the person making them.

I’m stating that the ease of making yourself a harder target by jittery dancing makes the different situations in which fire-fights happen less meaningful. The dancing works directly against diversity in gunfights.

The argument ‘positioning is still important’ really doesn’t cut it. I’m not saying positioning is no longer important, I’m saying that it’s substantially less important and that the more important dancing becomes, the more position loses it’s weight simply due to the fact that dancing can be used to get yourself out of harm’s way if wrong decisions are made.
[/QUOTE]Out of curiosity, I would love to hear exactly how you think firefights should play out.

I see that “jittery dancing” as what adds skill to firefights. The game would be utterly boring and borderline a completely different game if people just hid behind boxes peaking at each other.

So please, explain how you think firefights should work in this objective based game. Also enlighten me as to how dancing works against gun diversity.

(DarkangelUK) #149

[QUOTE=Bananas;416452]Out of curiosity, I would love to hear exactly how you think firefights should play out.

I see that “jittery dancing” as what adds skill to firefights. The game would be utterly boring and borderline a completely different game if people just hid behind boxes peaking at each other.

So please, explain how you think firefights should work in this objective based game. Also enlighten me as to how dancing works against gun diversity.[/QUOTE]

Oh please don’t feed him, he must be full already.

(tangoliber) #150

A heavy reliance on tactical positioning is one way to add depth, but a game doesn’t need every possible facet of depth. Arena shooters, with their movement and the role that positioning has in those games, are perfectly fine. I don’t think they would be any better if they were more tactical.

(warbie) #151

Also, games with a heavy reliance on positioning tend to be slow and require few shots to kill - two things that allow for chance to play a large role in proceedings. The longer a fight goes on the more movement skill, aiming skill, team play, positioning and tactics come to the fore, which is why ET was amazing :slight_smile:

(BMXer) #152

Lets stop calling it “dancing”… think dodge. Watch some Cooller demos. Its so far from “dancing” for most decent players its funny. Good players don’t “dance”, they dodge. Just like good players don’t spray, they aim.

(Bananas) #153

[QUOTE=BMXer;416479]Lets stop calling it “dancing”… think dodge. Watch some Cooller demos. Its so far from “dancing” for most decent players its funny. Good players don’t “dance”, they dodge. Just like good players don’t spray, they aim.[/QUOTE]Dancing is so much more eloquent. Dodging sounds like you just jumped away from a nade and landed on your face. I’ll stick to dancing.

(adhesive) #154

//youtu.be/6pOq4hyoX9g

learn to dance :stroggtapir::penguin:

(Humate) #155

I’m not saying positioning is no longer important, I’m saying that it’s substantially less important and that the more important dancing becomes, the more position loses it’s weight simply due to the fact that dancing can be used to get yourself out of harm’s way if wrong deciscions are made.

The only time you “make wrong decisions” position wise is if youre fighting in the middle of the map with no cover. In which case flanking is irrelevant.

Does lateral movement mitigate the power of a flank? Yes.
Does the flanker lose their advantage? No. They get first shot.

(ailmanki) #156

My 2 cents:

The game has a few “most used” controls, directional and mouse buttons, maybe space bar too.
Now if you give more “depth” to these controls, I believe only good comes from it. And its not like you can roll your face over the keyboard and get good results in movement. So there is really skill required, that means if movement would be as fast as aiming with the mouse, some people would manage to evade every shot.
Skill has no ceiling, there is no limit. If you are going to match up two kungfu fighters, they better be at same level, or the fight will be fast ended. Same goes for that dancing, moving, strafing. As some said, its possible in QW to recognize someone based on his movement, I know that from ET, and its something which is very special.

While I love the fast movement in older games like ET and Quake 3, I did not like the video posted from Apoc about QW Frags. The game looks realistic, but the movement does not. I mean in Q3/ET I just accepted that, especially in Q3 - since the models dont move much at all. But in QW, you got moving legs, and everything, and then this guy just floats/flys around. Looks very strange to me.

I think the movement speed should be as high as possible - just to the point where it starts looking unrealistic, I mean like very obvious unrealistic. I guess that would be 30% slower then QW. Yet at same time give us full freedom in movement + knockback which might even slower movement (e.g. heavy soldier weapons, shotguns).

Would love to see some futuristic game with robots somewhen in future - which move at the speed of Quake 3, but actually make correct physical interactions to make that movement happen.

@toka indeed the more possibilities movement has, the less important the initial position will be, yet - this accounts mainly a 1vs1 fight. As soon as crossfire is possible, and specially teamkills - positioning and fast movement will be difficult and very important (since you dont want to “dance” into your teammates fireline), maybe even more, depending on map layout. Besides dancing as such is only so important if mouse movement increases spread. Which I am not aware of if its in DB or not. If it does increase spread, its important to also be able to dance - and at best predict enemy, or even force him to dance like you dance. Attack is best defense.

(acQu) #157

[QUOTE=Bananas;416452]Out of curiosity, I would love to hear exactly how you think firefights should play out.

I see that “jittery dancing” as what adds skill to firefights. The game would be utterly boring and borderline a completely different game if people just hid behind boxes peaking at each other.

So please, explain how you think firefights should work in this objective based game. Also enlighten me as to how dancing works against gun diversity.[/QUOTE]

I am not quite sure if i get your point. The “jittery dancing” was always something i liked. I had probably my best infights in W:ET due to it. For example there was a guy, which was good, and i was also considered to be quite good, and we met at a path way. He started “jittery dancing”, basically strafing left to right, trying to walk my head for a hit. Me on the other side had a box right next to my right side. So what i did was: hit, go right and shortly crouch behind the box, come out again, hit and repeat, till he was dead. This whole process went really really fast, probably 1 - 2 secs, and i crouched at least 2 times behind the box. And i know, this sounds not a quarter of a million as good as it actually was. But believe me, it felt really good, and that was because i had a good movement system on my side :smiley:

Well, so if i had your point then “jittery dancing” is the exact opposite of boring imo.

Another thing: the W:ET movement system was just brilliant, because it was non-restrictive, and especially i liked how you could imitate for example a heavy weight. Yes, that was possible. At least you could move like this, like total Terminator, you know, some really heavy weight. Ah it is hard to explain, if you never felt it, but that was what W:ET movement system gave to me. It had lots of possibilities and gave lots of freedom to players.

(AKAMrSmiley) #158

Do you know what the 5 D’s of Dirty Bomb are?

(INF3RN0) #159

You misread his post lol. He was agreeing with what your saying and opposing what Toka said.

(acQu) #160

Ah, sorry Bananas :slight_smile: hands over a banana and hides back in the shadows