[QUOTE=.Chris.;415943]It doesn’t feel like ET/ETQW therefore it must be a clone of BF/COD!
Seriously though, funny how both examples are often cited together despite being different from each other, ET and ET:QW were vastly different and so were the BF and COD games I’ve played, albeit not recent ones.[/QUOTE]
Would you say DB’s gunfights feel more ETQW’ISH or COD/BF’ish?
I don’t think anyone is saying it is identical, we all know what we mean. At least I hope so.
They have similarities in feel though. Both have that clunky, who sees who first wins gameplay that seems so popular these days. I agree though - they’re quite different over all.
In relation to how quickly people die, CODish, in relation to movement speed, ET:QWish and that’s why I’d like them to look at weapons a bit before making other major changes to movement.
They have the same, boring movement. Just running. Call of Duty 4 was the last Call of Duty to have decent movement and reward those who knew how to use it.
I think this way of thinking does a huge disservice to the players who have supported SD’s past titles over the years. Yes, DB is a new title but it is riding on the reputation of those boats that have sailed.
I dont think I could say it any better so ill just quote warbie…
Currently the movement is enough that many weapons don’t give enough feedback and it’s hard to say if anything is improving. Mostly the pistols give a good feedback on aim. Other weapons have such a high spread bloom that after the first shots i can’t really tell if I’m not aiming at them properly or it’s just the spread.
[QUOTE=dommafia;415944]Would you say DB’s gunfights feel more ETQW’ISH or COD/BF’ish?
I don’t think anyone is saying it is identical, we all know what we mean. At least I hope so.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that it feels smack in the middle. And that’s not a good thing. In cod kills are fast enough for you to kill someone before they even shoot back, and as a result you can still have kill streaks and even when damaged there can still be epic moments.
In etqw kills were slow unless you could hit headshots, fights could be extended by good or tricky movement, and as a result nice streaks could also be had, and having low health didn’t rule you out.
The problem with being in the middle is you kill quick but not quick enough to not take a lot of damage like cod. And you don’t have efficient and diverse enough movement like in etqw so once your low health, there is no real way to counter and as a result, gun fights are predictable and boring and kills just feel like you started first with higher HP.
[QUOTE=Apoc;416008]The problem is that it feels smack in the middle. And that’s not a good thing. In cod kills are fast enough for you to kill someone before they even shoot back, and as a result you can still have kill streaks and even when damaged there can still be epic moments.
In etqw kills were slow unless you could hit headshots, fights could be extended by good or tricky movement, and as a result nice streaks could also be had, and having low health didn’t rule you out.
The problem with being in the middle is you kill quick but not quick enough to not take a lot of damage like cod. And you don’t have efficient and diverse enough movement like in etqw so once your low health, there is no real way to counter and as a result, gun fights are predictable and boring and kills just feel like you started first with higher HP.[/QUOTE]
This is a very interesting take on it. Is it your prediction then that health is so important that after people have understood the game better medics and camping would dominate?
I think they should have a test server with the movement tweaked" to behave like many have suggested, rather than a global patch, so they are able to compare it.
My opinions:
I’m not really sure how difficult it is from a a development point of view. It appears that changing movement and stuff seems to be a rail pain.
HOWEVER I do agree that the window to experiment with drastically different base mechanics is rapidly closing so to me it seems wise to be very playful at the start and then narrow it down with smaller increments.
[QUOTE=H0RSE;416023]I think they should have a test server with the movement tweaked" to behave like many have suggested, rather than a global patch, so they are able to compare it.
[/QUOTE]
Folks keep suggesting stuff like this like it’s easy to do 
Any values we’d want to either let you tweak via the console, or setup on custom servers, has to be exposed to work in such a way, that can take quite some time to do. Not only that but some values simply can’t be taken out of code like that or edited on the fly.
If we don’t invest a lot of time on a system like that then we’d be talking about making specific patches and builds for specific servers, that would require functionality to run multiple builds via the same launcher and so on. It can all get very complex.
Further down the line we definitely want to have something like ‘test realms’ for incoming patches, but functionality like this isn’t trivial for us to put together I’m afraid so it’s not likely in the immediate future 
He’s not asking for console commands though. He’s asking for drastically different builds (and they don’t need to run simultaneously) to test rather than taking the small steps we’re taking now. To me personally it feels like we’re not really at the polishing stage yet.
I don’t think people would mind having a completely build to test each week. Everyone here just really wants to get the movement and gunplay right before looking at other stuff.
Swapping weapon allows you to cancel at any time.
My opinion:
[QUOTE=Anti;416034]Folks keep suggesting stuff like this like it’s easy to do
Any values we’d want to either let you tweak via the console, or setup on custom servers, has to be exposed to work in such a way, that can take quite some time to do. Not only that but some values simply can’t be taken out of code like that or edited on the fly.
If we don’t invest a lot of time on a system like that then we’d be talking about making specific patches and builds for specific servers, that would require functionality to run multiple builds via the same launcher and so on. It can all get very complex.
Further down the line we definitely want to have something like ‘test realms’ for incoming patches, but functionality like this isn’t trivial for us to put together I’m afraid so it’s not likely in the immediate future :([/QUOTE]
I think we just need some sort system, because movement and gunplay are so imperative to an fps game. At the moment, movement needs to be more interesting, it needs to be something to master in itself, at the moment it has no skill to it and as a result it makes gunfights very one dimensional.
As toka said, this stuff needs working out before polishing can start. Which is why its so great that testing is going on so early, so the core mechanics can be perfected before beta.
[QUOTE=Apoc;416058]I think we just need some sort system, because movement and gunplay are so imperative to an fps game. At the moment, movement needs to be more interesting, it needs to be something to master in itself, at the moment it has no skill to it and as a result it makes gunfights very one dimensional.
As toka said, this stuff needs working out before polishing can start. Which is why its so great that testing is going on so early, so the core mechanics can be perfected before beta.[/QUOTE]
Yep, we understand fun movement is what you guys want and we’re working towards it
I think we’ll get to that point quicker if we don’t put out builds at the extremes of values at this stage but focus on iterating a few areas.
You have to bear in mind that we could give you a build with the sort of things you’re asking for, but then we’d be doing a bunch of things wrong:
[ul]
[li]We’d be designing a game based on the feedback of a tiny sample of people, this is very risky[/li][li]We’d be ignoring any data we have, that’d be super risky![/li][li]We’d be ignoring our own feelings about the best direction for the game, that would make us sad 
[/li][li]We still wouldn’t please all of you as you don’t all agree on all points :)[/li][/ul]
This is why the process of balancing and polishing a game has to be gradual, so we can factor in all the elements, and why it will take through until the end of beta to complete. This is a long process. one which we’re still quite early on into.
[QUOTE=Apoc;416008]The problem is that it feels smack in the middle. And that’s not a good thing. In cod kills are fast enough for you to kill someone before they even shoot back, and as a result you can still have kill streaks and even when damaged there can still be epic moments.
In etqw kills were slow unless you could hit headshots, fights could be extended by good or tricky movement, and as a result nice streaks could also be had, and having low health didn’t rule you out.
The problem with being in the middle is you kill quick but not quick enough to not take a lot of damage like cod. And you don’t have efficient and diverse enough movement like in etqw so once your low health, there is no real way to counter and as a result, gun fights are predictable and boring and kills just feel like you started first with higher HP.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. It’s like having the elements of ET without it playing like ET. I’m getting the sneaky impression the goal is for CoD crossed without ET - just nobody wants to admit it!