This map is a Citadel Objective remix, with 6vs6 clan wars in mind. You can read about it here:
http://w1.859.telia.com/~u85929498/svarvadel/
The changes is a result of discussions with people playing ET clan wars on a regular basis, mainly in the Swedish League. Other suggestions are welcome, of course.
(thanks to Marko for making all the changes even though he sometimes don’t agree with them)
Svarvsven
looks promising.
leeching right now :moo:
edith wants me to say:
hmm… just for what i’ve seen so far, there are some player movement issues.
those fences at allied (and axis) spawn are not inside the clip brush, allowing
you to bump against every single fence post. the fences should imo cover the
whole length of the clip brush, because invisible walls aren’t quite selfexplanatory
to non-mappers. the turret right in front of allied spawn has a very thin walkway.
you really have to be so damn careful not falling down the inside… also the pales
the roof stands on seem to disrupt player movement. on a sidenote, player doesn’t
receive damage when standing on the torches 
crew served MG at C2 isnt usable. at least i couldn’t turn left/right but shivered.
when standing on that MG just turn right and you’ll find a door with unclipped
doorframe. again: movement killer. the corridor at D3-D4 has some nifty pales
standing in it disrupting player movement - and one can find another unclipped
doorframe here. the cannon ammo building shows up with some sparklies at the
wall facing the citadel barrier (parallel). that’s what i’ve come around for now…
no comments on gameplay yet, have to play on a server with a few peeps… 
but since i couldn’t do it any better, you even might ignore every single point i’ve mentioned 
Thore, that was really an interesting post u just made. However, I’m not sure I did understand so much about it. Could you clearify the problems?
This map is just a minor remix of Citadel Objective (the public server version) so most of that is probably shared with that map, made by Marko. I just had a word with Marko about this post and he didnt completely understand it either…?
I’ll try to organize the remarks:
1 ) bump against fence posts?
2 ) invisible walls
(yes, there are…so you shouldn’t be able to “escape the map”)
3 ) thin walkway?
4 ) “pales the roof stands on” disrupts player movement?
5 ) player does not receive damage standing on tourches
(ok, I can live with that)
6 ) crew served mg isnt working properly
(seems to work for me?)
7 ) unclipped doorframe?
8 ) corridor with more disrupting player movement?
9 ) 2nd unclipped doorframe?
Best regards,
Svarvsven
walk along the fence strafing against it… you will notice the fence posts will ‘catch’ you.
when putting the fence inside the clip brush, you will get a totally smooth fence surface.
i have to admit this doesn’t really matter because i don’t expect hard fights behind the
spawn, but at other, more occupied spots where players will more likely take part of
some fights, it can be your death to stick to map’s brushwork. just imagine you are
jumping, strafing, running all over the map with your eyes on the enemy and suddenly
become stuck on ordinary brushwork. easy frag for the opponent - something to avoid 
mappers (and i bet the usual player too) know, what those clipped wall are for, to prevent
you from getting anywhere… but imo it’s much nicer to have a visual clue telling the player
‘to this point and no step further’, meaning the fence should span the whole clip brush, not
only the middle part. this isn’t really necessary for the gameplay, but it bugs players like me
who just try to get everywhere
concerning the pales and unclipped door frames i might take some screenies…
i’ll be back :moo:
Got you another mirror if you need it, http://billskirnir.servegame.com/etmain/svarvadel.pk3
(Only since it’s the http-dl for my server :))
Thore:
1 ) getting stuck on fence posts
(I can see what you mean now, but I would say this is an ET problem in general on all maps; I get stuck on goldrush, oasis and everywhere…of course you could design these actual fences in another way to reduce those “incidents”…maybe in a future version then)
8 ) corridor with more disrupting player movement?
(still not sure of this one, but yes sometimes you “get stuck” in things that are either inwards or outwards from a wall)
I look forward to screenies regarding 3, 4, 7, 9, 10. Do you have anything more about the mg, cause I tried it out and it seems to work properly…
mg’s blockin is some sort of a bug in ET… i had those problems on my old system in about every map, it was gone if i restarted ET…
no comment on the map yet… havent really played it just a quick run thru… didnt notice anything diff then what u say that should b diff
No, actually svarvadel.pk3 and citadel_obj.pk3 are based on the citadel.pk3 map. All are ET-maps and the layout “got inspired” by Marko’s french ideas… 
the MG ‘bug’ is gone… as genesis said i just had to restart ET. not sure whether it might be caused by /devmap
though, since i had the same mg bug in pink hotchkiss… screens are on their way… hopefully i’ll find some time
today and resize/upload them…
[edit]
okay, here we go:
what would make architects of the ‘real’ world construct such a wall layout?
it just looks somewhat strange… i would suggest you either raise the terrain on the
outside or just replace the walls with some buildings covering the whole space.
the corridor. it’s fine to have a walk in here alone, but i think as soon as an enemy will
jump into and players start their hectic left-right movement they will bump against every
single pole. i would like to see those poles ‘smoothened’ with 45° clip brushes.
_/[]_ instead of [] ( ___ is the wall, [] the pole als / \ the 45° clips, topdown view)
same corridor, upper level. same poles, same suggestion. the door at the left should be
clipped too. you (hopefully :D) don’t want ppl to get stuck at the frame when running out
gasping for fresh air…
again the corridor. did you notice the light shining through at the right side of the frame?
another door, unclipped. easy to get stuck here.
yet another door / frame. although it will rarely happen to get stuck here, it WILL happen
just if you are drunken enough. 100 times you won’t have any problems running though
that door, but i bet the one time you get stuck - it’s THE one time the opponent is chasing
you thankfully see his frag count rising.
door. near mg position. same catch as mentioned above…
some sparklies.
up here the movement takes your whole attention… no time concentrating
on the opponent if you dont wan’t to fall down. you CAN move up here, but
between the pole and the outer rim there isn’t much space left, so i won’t call
the movement ‘fluid’. repositioning the poles onto the outer rim and shrinking
the inner whole (does anyone need THAT much space for a single ladder?)
would possibly make this location quite comfy…
spaaaarklieeeeees. and a whole load of th’em!
one of those outer fences. those would look strange in the real world
i hope i could show you some places that could be improved to turn a good map
into a even better (if not perfect) map… pls don’t take me negative on those, i’m
quite famous for not mentioning all those things i like :moo: :drink:
Thore:
I agree that with that clip brushes could/hsould be used to make it less possible to “get stucks” in maps. I even sometimes “get stuck for a second” on standard maps but I don’t think that this map have more or less such “spots” than any other map. And I don’t think it will affect game play in 6vs6 matches.
Regarding layout that “wouldnt have been done IRL” I can agree that mapmakers should try to stick to reasonable solutions as far as possible…still the one u mention shouldnt affect game play. Also I did notice the sparkles earlier (while chasing “missing textures”) however I got the answer that the whole roof would have to be replaced to solve the problem…
Hope to hear from clans that did try out this map in 6vs6 clan praccs about any suggestions regarding game play!
lol well sorry about not clipping all this But I’m more the kind of guy who hates complex corridors where simply pressing the forward key gets you round every pole and obstacle I like it when you actually need to turn for real and use strafing to get around debris & stuff
Hi
Those are nice screens. Obviously we (as mappers, in general) can’t cover everything, but some of the more annoying stuff should perhaps be clipped. I clip a lot of stuff in my maps. Not everything (partly because I’m lazy) but most of it. ABout the sparklies: If there are only 1-2 in the whole map, I can live with it. I was more pedantic when I was new, but nowadays I tend to ignore 1-2 sparklies. (Is there such a word as pedantic in the english?) About resonable constrution: I agree! If you have to stop making a fence, in the middle of nowhere, it will “look funny” in the map - that is not good. You must put some stuff there, to show the players something. How about a small piece of fence on the ground and perhaps a bucket. And some tool (pliers?) on the ground. That will show the players that the people who live here are working on the fence (And that’s why it is not completed yet).
More about resonable constrution: It’s of course OK to have stuff in the map that is not logical, if it is done with style. I mean, stuff in the map that makes the players go: “What IS that?” or “I wonder what that is.” For example, huge barrels in a room, with tubes (or whatever) that look awesome/cool. (it’s just an example). Maybe I’m the only one, but I enjoy mysteries - things in maps that are of no game-play value and have an (unclear) usage that is open for interpretation.
Sorry for derailing the thread.
// Loffy
Hey Loffy, there is an english word that means Pedantic. The word is Pedantic. They stole from everyone
well finally it’s up to the actual mapper whether or not to put even more work into some project
and fine tune to shiny perfection sparklies… yeah, some could be ignored - but those shown
on the screens are really so damn obvious… i wonder why someone should want to leave it that
way… but that’s just me - and it isn’t my map :moo:
clipping or not clipping, that’s the question. one should not forget that there’s only ONE sense
that helps players navigate though all those wonderful maps: visuality. while the player is busy
having an eye onto the opponent there isn’t much space to stress him with difficult movement.
in real life you have audible and touchable feedback too that helps you getting though some
passage… since games yet aren’t that complex one should make passages not that complex
(or ‘real’) as they would normally be. you want players to have fun on your map… but imo they
won’t have any if they get stuck. maybe it’s just me… but i hate getting stuck just remember
oasis’ forward spawn (old city). if you jump down from the middle roof passage (or allied mg)
and hit the doorframe just a little to the left… stuck & dead.
in RL you don’t have to pay attention for your movement. walking isn’t about concentrating on
your footsteps. if you want to walk, you simply walk. in games, you have to concentrate by pressing
the right button… forward, back, strafe, look up / down… all those normal things that happen
automagically in RL demand your whole attention when playing games. in addition, in games you
walk and look with hour hands… again something that’s quite different than you’re used to. your
intention to walk and look into a certain direction has to be translated for your hands to trigger
the correct button. playing should imo be fun, not stress, that’s why i tend to clip everything
but finally, it’s solely up to the mapper…
:drink:
I agree nice post u just made there
But I still stay an old bugger with my non-clipped stuff I used thos pillar for cover on a game at lunch time I think it’s a shame to clip them out coz u can no longer stick nicely against them… On the other hand, I should have clipped the door frames to make those critical areas a little more friendly