Neutral AI parties in maps.

(tokamak) #1

I was just watching a Heroes of the Storm video. Blizzard is REALLY taking this game seriously. I guess they want to get back at everyone that ripped off their DotA.

One thing that HotS is profiling itself on is the way their maps are far more interactive than any other MOBA. I guess that’s the RPG element that Blizzard has gained so much experience on in the last decades.

In this video we see the usual MOBA, but with a twist. At the centre of the map there’s a huge mercenary pirate ship. The captain on board wants coins spread accross the map. Gather the coins and the captain will fire away at your enemy.

//youtu.be/652N8sOQb4M

Now I’m not suggesting that DB should include pirate captains in the game. But neutral entities that can sway the favour of either team depending on map control sounds AWESOME.

I’m thinking:

  • Corrupt drone operator that will lend fire support at whichever team holds certain areas in the map. Or the opposite, try to blast you out of areas he doesn’t want you to go.
  • Drunk helicopter pilot that will give you a lift if you’ve found his secret stash of vintage whiskey. Could be a quick ride or putting a player in the gunner seat and circling around on the map.
  • A crane operator that will use his huge magnet to pick up the MCP and place it somewhere else. Either to set it back or to give it a shortcut.
  • A slow, cumbersome AI-driven indestructible mech walker, like Titanfall. Will fight for whoever hacks the controls on his back. The robot simply controls a square or a room or corridor. Not impossible to slip by, but definitely annoying if he’s not already on your side.

Now I know all of this is a bit bonkers compared to what’s currently going on in the game. And I guess a lot of this is probably more useful for later additions.

But still, this is how you stand out among the repetitive games. Blizzard understands that. They know that they won’t break into the saturated MOMBA market by simply offering a really polished LoL with Blizzard skins. They know that they have to advance the plot and refreshen the genre.

Having seen what SD is capable of doing with ETQW as well as the upcoming new maps I think it’s really worth checking adding crazy stuff like this to a couple of maps. Of course 80% of the whole game should just be the stuff that the veterans really like, it’s about them of course. But if there’s anything the new generation of multiplayers games are showing then it’s that ‘wacky’ does not cancel out ‘competitive’.

(rookie1) #2

So many original things can be done :slight_smile:
I’m in total favor of these stuff ^^ as you probably know …as long as its well done and stay in the spirit of DB.
Either a Mechanical or Bio AI
What difference in between activing an Auto turret as objective or Reviving an AI to operate an MG as side objective =none! …They both need to be kill,both as same Health ,they dont OP the teams that use them .But its improve the dynamic of the game .

(tokamak) #3

A great way to let the AI interact with the player is through a limited set of tokens that lay around the map and can be picked up. Once a player dies, the token falls on the floor to be picked up by someone else.

Ways the tokens can play a role:

  • A token can grant you turn you friendly to neutrals that are hostile to everyone else. IE, it can immunize you from drone fire, auto-turrets or mech walkers.
  • A token can give you a free ride
  • A set of tokens can give you a majority vote and neutrals can side with whoever has the majority.

Because the tokens drop when you die and can be picked up again by others you get a really nice combat dymanic where players change in prominence in the map. IE, players carrying around a token become more valuable to the team and higher priority targets to the enemy. It means that sometimes it’s worth sacrificing yourself to protect someone who has an important token.

Tokens in this sense also make the neutral influence less arbitrary and more down to how the players perform themselves. Just like in the video. There’s not just some pirate randomly firing away at everyone, players have to work for his favour and once they paid for it, the reward is consistent.

[QUOTE=rookie1;501121]So many original things can be done :slight_smile:
I’m in total favor of these stuff ^^ as you probably know …as long as its well done and stay in the spirit of DB.
Either a Mechanical or Bio AI
What difference in between activing an Auto turret as objective or Reviving an AI to operate an MG as side objective =none! …They both need to be kill,both as same Health ,they dont OP the teams that use them .But its improve the dynamic of the game .[/QUOTE]

Yes, if it’s included in a map it should be a pivotal part of it. Otherwise it may only add noise and be seens as filler. So we’re not talking about AI-driven mercs or something. It’s simply not as much fun to be fighting against bots. I think that’s what makes bots in multiplayer so lame, they feel like bullet-sponges. Killing just doesn’t do anything for the player.

That’s why I think that letting these neutral parties take some invincible role is the way to go here. Teams will have to work with them, they can ignore them, but they definitely can’t fight against them. Just like in the video. Players can’t fight the pirate captain, they can only bribe him.

(rookie1) #4

Ref:Token ^^ I think worth brainstorming for a futur Game mode .

(Rex) #5

Dude, we are in a shooter here not in a moba… :rolleyes:

(BomBaKlaK) #6

Yeah Tokamak is full of strange ideas …

(Ashog) #7

I also demand random neutral aggro grandma’s with railguns and red armour, with a special flap-slap ability as an asset.

(BomBaKlaK) #8

oohh what a nice idea

(chippy) #9

“pepperonipizza” anyone?

(Nail) #10

no just no

(AsKo_) #11

no , doesnt work with dirty bomb

(k0k0nat) #12

//youtu.be/UU_GhqVgc9M

(tokamak) #13

Some elements can be used for a symmetric objective (both teams fighting over the same thing) but as of now neutral parties do fit in smoothly with the usual attacker/defender set up. They’d just be treated like side or main objectives, only way more dynamic than a couple of objects that move aside when you fix them.

(montheponies) #14

surprisingly i’m kinda for this - it has the potential to act as a decent side objective that both sides can contest to reduce the potential meat grinder around the primary objective like what we have now…think flag capture on steriods.

(Nail) #15

A helicopter ?
on these maps ?

You’re delusional

(BomBaKlaK) #16

Tokamak what is your drug ? Look like something really strong, maybe you need a break.

(slanir) #17

I’m not a big fan of AI units in games like these. It’s no fun being shot by or shooting at AI controlled opponents.

(rookie1) #18

As mb an exemple of what you thinking (just convert token in points)

There’s a Cargo ship in port. Crates of Ammo are on ground.
An AI Crane Load the ship with the crates
Each team Has a truck (or whatever) and fight to hack the crane (or to gun pointed the operator)to drop a crate to their truck (each crate is points)
The team that Has the more crates in their truck Win (Max Time or until no crates left )
Crane&operator are undestructive

Sound a bit like you thinking ?

(tokamak) #19

Yes. That’s exactly the type of interaction I’d love to see as an objective. Also great that you found a non-lethal way for an AI to be used in the game. Those are the most difficult.

A step further would be each team having an array of transport-quadcopters (tiny magogs) that swarm through the map in search for containers. Once they found one they’ll bring it back to their respective team and drop it in the truck. Players can’t carry the containers themselves (because they’re radio-active or whatever). Or they can try but their health will continue to drop. So that leaves them some really desperate option in case the quadcopters run scarce.

Both teams are then required to hunt each other’s quadcopters while protecting their own until one of them has enough containers to win.

And a further step would be finding new neutral helicopters in the map, activating them and making them work for your team.

Oh I agree! I HATE substitute bots. The possibility alone that one of the team-mates or opponents could be a bot just spoils the entire experience.

That’s why AI-drive elements need to be in unique roles in the game. I see them more as highly interactive objectives than actual bots. Ashog also touches upon something highly sensitive with his red granny robot. Randomly behaving AI needs to be avoided at all costs. Games shouldn’t be won or lost just because a computer is doing things that players have no real control over.

That’s another leaf we can take from Blizzard’s book. Their pirate captain isn’t random at all. He functions exactly how he is described. The wackiness comes from players accumulating the coins which turns them into highly sought after pinatas.

[QUOTE=Nail;501158]A helicopter ?
on these maps ?

You’re delusional[/QUOTE]

Obviously the current maps are unsuitable to tack on some AI gimmick. The maps would need to be build with such a feature in mind. And a helicopter doing low rounds over heathrow airport or whatever doesn’t seem to over the top. I’m sure actually implementing this is going to give a ton of headache but in the end this is the sort of stuff that peaks the attention of outsiders. This is what gets people talking.

(tokamak) #20

Double post.