Need tech info about usages of .ASE in maps/Q3MAP2

(Browser [ICE]) #1

I am currently modifying the code of the GMAX Tempest gamepack. One of those changes involves droping the old Q3MAP and using Q3MAP2 instead (yea !).

Currently Tempest has limitations as the kind of Max objects you can use in a Q3 map. It is restricted to boxes and cylinders. I want to change this to be like all the other Q3 map editors.

Now since I am using Q3MAP2 in the compiling process and since GMAX Tempest is a Max based software, it got me thinking about adding .ASE components into the map and let Q3MAP2 compile them. This would give a hudge push in the creativity of maps in Tempest (especialy if I manage to have the .ASE file showing up in the viewport just like any normal MD3 model).

But before rushing into this, I need tech infos about .ASE handled by Q3MAP2. I did several searches in this forum and looked at the Q3MAP2 manual on Shaderlab but didn’t find anything (I may have overlooked as I am a bit sleepy now).

What is the maximum amount of polygon a single .ASE file can have in a Q3 map compiled by Q3MAP2 ?

Can it have a multi-sub material on it so it would have multiple textures ?

I don’t know how this would be handled in Q3 unless as several different objects into one single .ASE file just like you would have more then one objects into a single MD3 and each of these objects would have its own texture.

The limitation of using any amount of .ASE misc_model would be in the maximum amount of entities allowed in a Q3 map, right ?

(MadJack) #2

What is the maximum amount of polygon a single .ASE file can have in a Q3 map compiled by Q3MAP2 ?

Can’t help you with that…

Can it have a multi-sub material on it so it would have multiple textures ?

if the question is if it can have multiple textures then the answer is yes.

I don’t know how this would be handled in Q3 unless as several different objects into one single .ASE file just like you would have more then one objects into a single MD3 and each of these objects would have its own texture.

if my memory serves me well, I think ydnar mentionned .ase models are treated the same way as md3 are with q3map2.

The limitation of using any amount of .ASE misc_model would be in the maximum amount of entities allowed in a Q3 map, right ?

My guess would be as the max models in a map which I think is 512 and not ents. But I might be wrong. Best bet is to check the sources. It’s probably commented.

HTH

(obsidian) #3

There isn’t a poly limit on ASE models per se. I believe that you can only have 1024 vertexes per object, but you can have multiple objects within an ASE. This means that there isn’t really a poly limit with ASE’s at all, except when it comes to in-game surface rendering performance.

Sub-materials - I suppose you are refering to sub-object material mapping? Yes, you can map different materials to different polys of the same mesh object. As long as the material name follows the standard texture/shader path format (ie. models/mapobjects/mymodel/texturename - note the “/” instead of “”).

The process for doing this on an editable mesh or edit mesh modifier is simply to make a selection in poly or face sub-object mode and then apply a different material to the selection (as long as the material names are set up correctly). Then apply UVW co-ordinates.

Edit: The most commonly used method is to split the model into separate mesh objects and then apply a different material to each mesh. One method is not any better than the other, I guess the second method may be a bit easier for most cases.

You can add smoothing groups to models as well. Smoothing groups in Q3 are a toggle, so a mesh is either smoothed or not. Q3 does not support sub-object smoothing, so the entire mesh will be smoothed. If solid breaks between smoothed and non-smoothed surfaces are required on a model, then the solution is to break the object up into separate meshes.

There is no real limit to the amount of ASE’s that can be added to a map, other than for practical and performance reasons. Someone recently wrote how they added hundreds of plant models into a map and hit some sort of drawsurfs limit and compile times were excessively long. ASE’s are compiled into the BSP so they do not actually count towards the 1024 entity limit. Neither do light ents. So as long as you are adding a reasonable number of ASE’s into your map keeping performance in mind, there is no real limit.

So for these reasons, ASE’s are the preferred format for Q3Map2 over MD3’s since they don’t have any of theses (and other) limits. They can also be easily ported to different modeling programs and games like UT200X and DooM III.

Hope this helps answer your questions.

(kat) #4

Browser : don’t know if you know this but Q3m2 also has support for OBJ and 3DS models so there may be something in that you can use/update for gmax/tempest mapping. Also have a look at the MAX ASE export/import script for reference as the two are very similar.