Naming and shaming

[MTLMortis]

please actually add it with those specific words to the forum faq

[RyePanda]

Can we just get a forum tutorial level?

We actually kind of need it though so people know the rules. Especially the no name and shame which is the most frequently violated.

[MTLMortis]

Yeah, I’m just annoyed that we call it out everywhere and it’s not actually a rule that’s written anywhere.

[Amerika]

I’m pretty sure it was in one of the pinned topics but I believe they have been changed out. I’ll see what we can do about adding it to the more obvious places.

[Backuplight]

[quote=“MissMurder;20008”]- The forums are not the channel for reporting players.

• Reporting players through the forums can be seen as harassment as it can lead to disruptive, inflammatory behavior.[/quote]Taken from the Forum FAQ. Clear enough, imo. Realistically the people who post names now would still post it even if we had the rule printed in bold across the top of every page.

[bwort110]

Fishing for compliments thread?
Blame the victims and protect the purportrater , like in real life

[Badger_Commander]

[quote=“bwort110;63273”]Fishing for compliments thread?
Blame the victims and protect the purportrater , like in real life[/quote]

Fishing for dislikes?

[Jostabeere]

[quote=“bwort110;63273”]Fishing for compliments thread?
Blame the victims and protect the purportrater , like in real life[/quote]

I call you a hacker and rage on the forums without proof. Am I the victim and you the bad guy now? Think about it a second time before you post such a comment.

[Vexed]

@bwort110 Picture the scene. Little Timmy has just played his first game of competitive. He gets matched against a player much better than him - one who knows the map better, aims better and has better objective sense. Little Timmy gets utterly destroyed and finishes the game 2/22, with 500 points.

Timmy is angry and confused. He does not understand why he lost, and he has heard on the forums that competitive is full of cheaters. That must be it! He posts a topic complaining about the opposing team’s MVP being an obvious cheater noob.

What do you think happens if people start to take Timmy seriously?

Sure, Timmy may be right sometimes, but more often than never he’s actually just so bad at the game that he can’t even tell his opponent was on a whole other level. I am legitimately terrible at this game - I somehow blundered my way into Gold 5 after a few dozen games and I have no idea how - and even I have had matches where someone would call my entire team “noob hackers” because we “teleport”. Newsflash: we just knew the maps better than our greenhorn opponents and took shortcuts or detours as appropriate to outmaneuver them.

So let’s get back to naming and shaming on the forums. This is summary vigilante justice. It’s typically the work of judgemental and emotional people - the type who get angry and then have to vent at a bunch of strangers on the internet. Worse than that, the only effect it has is to cause unpleasantness and negativity towards somebody that may or may not be guilty of an offence.

If you encounter a cheater, or any other kind of griefer for that matter, the only fair way to deal with them is to report them via official channels. Naming and shaming doesn’t combat real cheaters - these people know they are going to be hated and will either revel in the abuse or simply change their names. It’s just vigilantism, and it’s banned for the same reasons.

[MTLMortis]

[quote=“Backuplight;63199”][quote=“MissMurder;20008”]- The forums are not the channel for reporting players.

• Reporting players through the forums can be seen as harassment as it can lead to disruptive, inflammatory behavior.[/quote]Taken from the Forum FAQ. Clear enough, imo. Realistically the people who post names now would still post it even if we had the rule printed in bold across the top of every page.[/quote]

That is why I said with the specific words “naming and shaming” that we use, instead of referencing a vague catch all.

[Backuplight]

[quote=“MTLMortis;63387”][quote=“Backuplight;63199”][quote=“MissMurder;20008”]- The forums are not the channel for reporting players.

• Reporting players through the forums can be seen as harassment as it can lead to disruptive, inflammatory behavior.[/quote]Taken from the Forum FAQ. Clear enough, imo. Realistically the people who post names now would still post it even if we had the rule printed in bold across the top of every page.[/quote]

That is why I said with the specific words “naming and shaming” that we use, instead of referencing a vague catch all.

[/quote]

Just not sure why you think it matters so much. The FAQ clearly covers it, just not in the words you think matter. Having it stated in more explicit terms changes nothing and helps nobody.

[_retired]

I think there’s another problem linked to naming and shaming. That is that it actually gives many hackers joy that they have affected some people.
They are craving for attention of their limited capabilities and brain funtionality.

Even though it’s good they are exposed in some way (reporting), giving them any extra spotlight (by naming, shaming, complaining) won’t make any good. More emotional we get, more they might enjoy. They are all bunch of moronic losers who don’t have to skill or capacity to make it in life or in the game so they are forced to hack/cheat. Or they are organized for some reason against the publisher, the developers or the community of the game.

Pity for such sad sods might be the right feeling towards them if anything is really required.

Apart from obvious ones, I much more hate the kind of that bland themselves to the background and could be decent players otherwise. They just are silly little people who aren’t brave enough to lose so they hack their way to victory and some kill ratios. Sometimes whether you win or lose against them, you have nagging feeling something was wrong. I hate those moments. Calling out those dudes without evidence would be stupid from me and they most likely will play it nice or just leave if you start to watch.

But let’s not give these cheaters any extra feeling of that they have won anything.
They haven’t. They are losers and will stay losers.

[Yes]

[quote=“Backuplight;63407”][quote=“MTLMortis;63387”][quote=“Backuplight;63199”][quote=“MissMurder;20008”]- The forums are not the channel for reporting players.

• Reporting players through the forums can be seen as harassment as it can lead to disruptive, inflammatory behavior.[/quote]Taken from the Forum FAQ. Clear enough, imo. Realistically the people who post names now would still post it even if we had the rule printed in bold across the top of every page.[/quote]

That is why I said with the specific words “naming and shaming” that we use, instead of referencing a vague catch all.

[/quote]

Just not sure why you think it matters so much. The FAQ clearly covers it, just not in the words you think matter. Having it stated in more explicit terms changes nothing and helps nobody.[/quote]
It’s not clearly covered because it’s under the customer support section.

[Sussepus]

[quote=“Vexed;63386”]@bwort110 Picture the scene. Little Timmy has just played his first game of competitive. He gets matched against a player much better than him - one who knows the map better, aims better and has better objective sense. Little Timmy gets utterly destroyed and finishes the game 2/22, with 500 points.

Timmy is angry and confused. He does not understand why he lost, and he has heard on the forums that competitive is full of cheaters. That must be it! He posts a topic complaining about the opposing team’s MVP being an obvious cheater noob.

What do you think happens if people start to take Timmy seriously?

Sure, Timmy may be right sometimes, but more often than never he’s actually just so bad at the game that he can’t even tell his opponent was on a whole other level.[/quote]

i want to hear more about little timmy, the hackusater.

[Truth1]

Its also about general spam - naming and shaming on a General Chat section of a large community forum just makes forum look messy and hard to navigate.

[AlBundy]

let’s all agree to disagree

[Dirmagnos]

Naming and shaming rule server 2 main purposes: a) to cover amount of misdeeds in the game, so that players cant really tell how bad situation actually is and b) allowing to cover for publisher/developer own inadequacy in terms of control over game.
Whole example with “little Timmy” is improper, since were talking odds here. And odds are that there is far greater chance that people will see Timmy getting rekt and then, on top of that, making a fool of himself by raging about it on forum, and ridicule himself as result. And on a plus side player who Timmy “reports” may see, or learn about it by other means, whole hassle and gains a boost of self-confidence, watching Timmy self-owning.
Own me once, shame on me; self-own after that… thats just priceless.
In addition to that, cheaters are compensating for own shortcomings by using hacks. Trying to boost their self-confidence. And being reported, in public, makes all that effort to go down the drain. Depending on the high they will “climb”, in terms of ranks/levels/progression, it would be that much more painful to fall from this chimerical pedestal due to publicity of their mega fail and ridiculing comments made by community. And it would be a double sucker punch if they would advertise themselves as some super/mega/giga pros previously.
Not to mention to serve as a warning to any1 who may consider to follow the same path. And community in general, if appropriate and swift measures are taken, will feel better, since they see how effectively cheaters are dealt with.

[Fiktio]

You just need one innocent player getting accused publicly and you will understand why it’s a good thing that naming & shaming is not allowed.

I understand that cheaters ruin the fun from the game and deserve to get banned, I’m as much against cheating as you are. I understand it as well that there are several quite clear cases what comes about cheaters, but posting to forums about is only waste of time.
(Not to mention that some people think that better players are cheaters and can’t see a difference between a real cheater and very good player.)
Creating report to correct place might help though, maybe the cheater is actually real and he/she might get banned.

[Dirmagnos]

[quote=“Fiktio;66387”]You just need one innocent player getting accused publicly and you will understand why it’s a good thing that naming & shaming is not allowed.

I understand that cheaters ruin the fun from the game and deserve to get banned, I’m as much against cheating as you are. I understand it as well that there are several quite clear cases what comes about cheaters, but posting to forums about is only waste of time.
(Not to mention that some people think that better players are cheaters and can’t see a difference between a real cheater and very good player.)
Creating report to correct place might help though, maybe the cheater is actually real and he/she might get banned. [/quote]

Lol, what ?!?!
Public accusation, without proof(since there can be none) of a fair good player will only feed that player ego and will result in accuser making a complete arse of himself.
Players can consider any1 they wannt a cheater, but unless they can prove it, its just words. Empty words.
And thinking that some madeup accusation would lead to a ban(or any other type of punishment), without any real proof, is just… facepalm
Nexons Combat Arms had(dunno hows thing are now, havent played it in like 2-3 years) a rather simple and extensive report section on forum, with often many players pitching in and simply burying exploiting/cheating losers under load of compiled evidence.
And bogus/rage reports were just ridiculed and swiftly closed by staff.
And with ability to see player profile in public, many cheats got caught by players simply viewing their stats in combination with ingame activity.

[Fiktio]

[quote=“Dirmagnos;66484”]
And thinking that some madeup accusation would lead to a ban(or any other type of punishment), without any real proof, is just… facepalm[/quote]

I never said that anything would lead for a ban without an evidence. Getting banned without valid evidence indeed is super ridiculous.
Luckily that’s not even close what I said or what I meant to say.

I just have seen at previous games I’ve played how naming & shaming ruined player’s reputation.
That person got accused of being a cheater publicly on forums for many days.
Everybody believed he was a cheater. Nobody didn’t care to even investigate is that true or not. Later when that player got proven to be a honest player, it was too late.
Even his friends didn’t believe anymore that he wasn’t cheater.

Not everybody take it as “ego boost” if getting accused on forums for being cheater.
It’s of course cool to know that you are not a cheater, but how does it feel when no one else believe you? Even when your friends are thinking you are cheating? Yeah, playing alone with super big ego indeed. “They call me a hacker lol, but now I’m alone.”

Like I said, you need only one innocent player for this and the rule is already worth it.
But yeah, feel free to disagree. I’m not forcing anyone to agree with me.
Though maybe it would help if you would think how it would feel if the same thing would happen to you.