Nader updated - thoughts and opinions.

(gg2ez) #1

As most of us will know, Nader has been updated to a tankier build, getting more health and a minor speed reduction.

There are a couple of salties here and there so I’d really like to know what the general consensus is.

My thoughts on the Nader update are as follows:

  • Nader should still be at previous HP.
  • Nader’s new speed is all good
  • They should’ve just reduced launcher cooldown or given more nades.

So that’s my opinion, I believe giving Nader more nades would increase her ability as a shock trooper and room clearer. If you wish, leave your opinions down below.

(Eox) #2

Nah. In my opinion it was a very fine change. She already have far enough grenades, the CD is already very short, and the HP tweak makes her a bit more on par with other Weapon Specialists. She pretty oftenly suffered from comparisons with Fragger, oftenly considered as less effective than him. Hopefully this may change now.

Also, and this is more my very own way of thinking, it differentiate her more from Fletcher, because both can be used a bit the same way. But now we know that one will be more durable and will lock down corners more easly while the other one is valuable for being an engineer. You may think that what I say is stupid, but for me it makes sense.

(LANshark) #3

Her nades deal enough damage where you dont need to spam them, making this change useless for her and more frustrating for other people. She can already kill almost anyone with 2 direct nades. After 2 nades you have either:

  1. killed the person you were aiming for,
  2. you have pulled out your smg and are gunning them down
    (her launcher is a liability in close quarters)
  3. or you are dead.

The only reason you should be spamming nades is if you need to destroy a generator (cough bridge cough) or the enemy team has piled 4 people in a small room where you know they cant escape.
As to the health and speed changes, it’s nice to know i can fight as nader and not be worried with dying so often (10 hp doesn’t feel like a lot but having the extra HP always helps). The drop in speed comes with the increase in HP.

(Reddeadcap) #4

The changes dont affect her much imho, it’s fine.

I actually like that she’s at 120 as it puts here on the “regular health pool” but can deal tons of damage, making her a fine low health/high indirect damage assault.

(watsyurdeal) #5

Considering she is an assault class, I think it’s more than warranted.

If anything, I’d look at Martyrdom and how we can tweak it better. Like instead of dropping fragger nades, we drop Nader’s nades, and how many we have when we go down is how many you drop, and upon using Martyrdom, you basically empty your whole stock. So you’ll spawn with 0 nades, and you’ll have to wait for them to recharge.

Then, I’d also consider upping the damage of nades to 100, and nerfing capacity by 1, so we have 4 nades total.

(triteCherry) #6

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;70044”]Considering she is an assault class, I think it’s more than warranted.

If anything, I’d look at Martyrdom and how we can tweak it better. Like instead of dropping fragger nades, we drop Nader’s nades, and how many we have when we go down is how many you drop, and upon using Martyrdom, you basically empty your whole stock. So you’ll spawn with 0 nades, and you’ll have to wait for them to recharge.

Then, I’d also consider upping the damage of nades to 100, and nerfing capacity by 1, so we have 4 nades total.[/quote]

Isn’t her purpose area denial? Having stronger nades but lower capacity kind of lower the effectiveness at that job. Also I can’t see how that Martyrdom change will help the skill, seems like even more of a detriment then it’s current state.

(RyePanda) #7

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;70044”]Considering she is an assault class, I think it’s more than warranted.

If anything, I’d look at Martyrdom and how we can tweak it better. Like instead of dropping fragger nades, we drop Nader’s nades, and how many we have when we go down is how many you drop, and upon using Martyrdom, you basically empty your whole stock. So you’ll spawn with 0 nades, and you’ll have to wait for them to recharge.

Then, I’d also consider upping the damage of nades to 100, and nerfing capacity by 1, so we have 4 nades total.[/quote]

I agree with everything besides upping damage to 100, as that would let her 1 or 2 shot any class, especially with the added direct hit damage.

(Eox) #8

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;70044”]Considering she is an assault class, I think it’s more than warranted.

If anything, I’d look at Martyrdom and how we can tweak it better. Like instead of dropping fragger nades, we drop Nader’s nades, and how many we have when we go down is how many you drop, and upon using Martyrdom, you basically empty your whole stock. So you’ll spawn with 0 nades, and you’ll have to wait for them to recharge.

Then, I’d also consider upping the damage of nades to 100, and nerfing capacity by 1, so we have 4 nades total.[/quote]

That’s really not a bad idea. It can make the Nader user think twice before activating Martyrdom, giving some sense of strategy to a debatable ability. “Should I use Martyrdom to pop that engineer defusing, or should I keep my nades to lead a stronger offense when I’ll be back ?”.

(Gi.Am) #9

Aside from all the inconsistents arguments I brought up last time Watsyurdeal suggested it.
Its not much of a decision.
Only time it is avaible at all is when you still had nades left, before you die.
Only time it makes sense to deliberately gib yourself by spawning without nades is, as you outlined to prevent/ensure a defuse/plant/repair.
I play Nader quite often and do get quite a few Martyrdoms in (by not simply smashing but waiting and judging the situation btw.), but do you know, how often I Martydom an enemy engineer, while he is defusing/repairing/planting, while I had nades left before I died? Never !
That engineer isn’t shooting/moving and I have grenades, I can shoot in his face from afar. Even if I die in that situation I’m certainly not dieing on top of the objective. If I rush into the objective to get him with Martydom, it is specifically because I ran out of grenades and bullets.

(Killerbee) #10

My thoughts are that she didn’t need buffs, neither did rhino. Nader was perfectly fine, she is incredibly good all around and only suffers slightly in large open distances. Rhino is very good in certain situations and takes a lot of getting used to be fully utilize. He didn’t need more speed, a good rhino locks down key areas not runs around from point A to B constantly. As far as heavy classes go he is very fast already, why did he need this?

The worst part is that redeye and phantom got jack shit this patch, fine tuning my ass this was just a spit in both the merc playerbases faces. Why would they buff two perfectly fine mercs and leave out two really under played and under powered ones? I guess they have “data” that says otherwise, just like they had “data” on crotzni being too good. Meanwhile the kek still makes every other smg look like dogshit incomparison.

I don’t even know anymore.

(gg2ez) #11

[quote=“Killerbee;70281”]My thoughts are that she didn’t need buffs, neither did rhino. Nader was perfectly fine, she is incredibly good all around and only suffers slightly in large open distances. Rhino is very good in certain situations and takes a lot of getting used to be fully utilize. He didn’t need more speed, a good rhino locks down key areas not runs around from point A to B constantly. As far as heavy classes go he is very fast already, why did he need this?

The worst part is that redeye and phantom got jack shit this patch, fine tuning my ass this was just a spit in both the merc playerbases faces. Why would they buff two perfectly fine mercs and leave out two really under played and under powered ones? I guess they have “data” that says otherwise, just like they had “data” on crotzni being too good. Meanwhile the kek still makes every other smg look like dogshit incomparison.

I don’t even know anymore.[/quote]

Rage/10.

(Monty) #12

I think I prefered Nader more with its former HP and Speed. It was more fun with a more agile character. I know the difference in speed is miniscule when you are running in straight lines towards the fight, but during the flights Nader has started to feel way too clunky.

(watsyurdeal) #13

[quote=“triteCherry;70064”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;70044”]Considering she is an assault class, I think it’s more than warranted.

If anything, I’d look at Martyrdom and how we can tweak it better. Like instead of dropping fragger nades, we drop Nader’s nades, and how many we have when we go down is how many you drop, and upon using Martyrdom, you basically empty your whole stock. So you’ll spawn with 0 nades, and you’ll have to wait for them to recharge.

Then, I’d also consider upping the damage of nades to 100, and nerfing capacity by 1, so we have 4 nades total.[/quote]

Isn’t her purpose area denial? Having stronger nades but lower capacity kind of lower the effectiveness at that job. Also I can’t see how that Martyrdom change will help the skill, seems like even more of a detriment then it’s current state.[/quote]

I wouldn’t peg her for Area Denial so much as Crowd Control, breaking up groups of enemies or softening them to be finished off with bullets.

And it’ll make Martyrdom have a more tactical decision behind it, currently, there’s really no reason not too detonate if someone is close, and it happens at least 5 times or more a game when I play her. If anything it’d make those scenarios more scarce, and could actually add a lot more tactics to it since I could just run to the defuse point constantly and suicide on anyone who tries to defuse or plant.

(triteCherry) #14

In the large majority of games when I go Nader people always finish me off with bullets out of range, maybe 2-3 times in 5-6 stopwatch games where Martyrdom killed or damaged anyone. If I had to use my nades to use Martyrdom then I would never use it again because even now the skill is useless against players that know how Nader works.

Not sure if the skill should be changed around people who use it to Kamikazi.