Nader BUFF

(adeto) #21

Here ability is okay-ish on its own, its more a crowd control ability than a real kill one in my mind. However there is an Augment that reduces the damage you take from explosives(unshakable i think?) which makes her nades really really low damage if not a direct hit. Her own Bigger Blast Augment counters this slightly but still the damage output feels pretty low.

All over I’m pretty happy with her weapon/ability set right now tbh, using her mostly for crowdcontrol and poking enemies and finishing them off with SMG. Or damaging a group with SMG and then throwing some grenades in there to finish them off, whatever the situation.

(adeto) #22

Meh martyrdom from cod, turrets from tf2, mines from ET, grenade launcher from any other game. Comments like ‘un-inspired’ or ‘ripped off’ mean very little when its about shooter game design there will always be similarities to something.

(Amerika) #23

Where did i write anything about it not being possible to pull in real life ? Grenade laucher grenades WILL, in real life, fly farther and faster than things thrown by hand. You didnt even said anything to add to the discussion, would you kindly refrain from such posts in the future? Thank you.

[/quote]

First off, I wasn’t insulting. Second, you mentioned that you didn’t like that Fragger nades fly farther/faster when in the game doesn’t even represent how much further and farther you can throw real nades with a semi-decent arm. Third, I am not sure why you are trying to tell me not to post something that is relevant to what was stated but I will continue to do so. Thank you.

(Eox) #24

When I tried her, I felt like she was in a pretty good place. Nades hurts just right (around 80 as far as I noticed), her abilities are perfectly counterable or avoidable, she’s not as spammy as some people may say… I don’t really think there should be a buff for the nade’s damage, she feels kinda right.

(Zenity) #25

It’s kind of an odd design. Really low health for an assault, so that would make me think “glass cannon”, but she doesn’t have a lot of damage output either.

On the other hand, her default SMG is good, and she’s a bit faster with a bit less health than Sawbonez. So you get the grenade launcher utility (and so far I really think it’s more utility than destruction), vs. medic powers. Ultimately I think it’s a design that’s both fun to play and fun to play against, just a bit underwhelming all in all perhaps.

Martyrdom seems useless unless people forget about it, I think maybe they played it a bit too safe here? I don’t know how it was before, but I really don’t see why gibbing needs to cancel it. Now it’s just fluff, whereas otherwise it could have added some tactical considerations (e.g. go in for the gib and force her to blow up, or risk letting her be revived. This would be even more interesting with friendly fire).

(capriciousParsely) #26

I just want a buff to her HP. She’s a combat class. She should be able to at least show her face in a firefight without dropping like a fly.

(Zenity) #27

[quote=“Amerika;16086”]I like Nader where she is personally. If she was more powerful then she would be overused and the game would be extremely spammy and you’d die to more random luck grenades than anything else.

Her main ability is area denial. For example, on Bridge, she’d be a good pick to help take the barrier room since you can easily spam the common defensive spots and disrupt the people in there from either the back side of barrier or the front door. She completely removes the ability to dig in during a lot of defensive setups. That makes her a good pick for situations but probably not a great pick for a whole map. However, I am fine with that because I don’t want this game turning into nothing but spammed projectiles you barely have to think about and aim to get kills (and even worse in the hands of somebody who is good).[/quote]

Then again, while her grenades mess the defense up a bit, Fragger’s grenades simply clear out the room. And then he goes in with his BFG to mop up any survivors.

The low recharge rate of the grenade launcher means that she can provide some fairly constant suppression fire, but for everything else Fragger just seems to be far more qualified.

(JPB) #28

Meh martyrdom from cod, turrets from tf2, mines from ET, grenade launcher from any other game. Comments like ‘un-inspired’ or ‘ripped off’ mean very little when its about shooter game design there will always be similarities to something.[/quote]
Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t strive for something new, especially when the ability is shit anyway.

(irishrOy) #29

My reaction to this thread:

Sorry, but it had to be done :wink:

(Milky Mac) #30

[quote=“Zenity;16150”][quote=“Amerika;16086”]I like Nader where she is personally. If she was more powerful then she would be overused and the game would be extremely spammy and you’d die to more random luck grenades than anything else.

Her main ability is area denial. For example, on Bridge, she’d be a good pick to help take the barrier room since you can easily spam the common defensive spots and disrupt the people in there from either the back side of barrier or the front door. She completely removes the ability to dig in during a lot of defensive setups. That makes her a good pick for situations but probably not a great pick for a whole map. However, I am fine with that because I don’t want this game turning into nothing but spammed projectiles you barely have to think about and aim to get kills (and even worse in the hands of somebody who is good).[/quote]

Then again, while her grenades mess the defense up a bit, Fragger’s grenades simply clear out the room. And then he goes in with his BFG to mop up any survivors.

The low recharge rate of the grenade launcher means that she can provide some fairly constant suppression fire, but for everything else Fragger just seems to be far more qualified.[/quote]

Yup

(Amerika) #31

[quote=“Zenity;16150”][quote=“Amerika;16086”]I like Nader where she is personally. If she was more powerful then she would be overused and the game would be extremely spammy and you’d die to more random luck grenades than anything else.

Her main ability is area denial. For example, on Bridge, she’d be a good pick to help take the barrier room since you can easily spam the common defensive spots and disrupt the people in there from either the back side of barrier or the front door. She completely removes the ability to dig in during a lot of defensive setups. That makes her a good pick for situations but probably not a great pick for a whole map. However, I am fine with that because I don’t want this game turning into nothing but spammed projectiles you barely have to think about and aim to get kills (and even worse in the hands of somebody who is good).[/quote]

Then again, while her grenades mess the defense up a bit, Fragger’s grenades simply clear out the room. And then he goes in with his BFG to mop up any survivors.

The low recharge rate of the grenade launcher means that she can provide some fairly constant suppression fire, but for everything else Fragger just seems to be far more qualified.[/quote]

Yeah, but I’d rather see Fragger’s nades nerfed even more than have Nader get more powerful. I’d rather them all be denial weapons than main kill weapons. I’m not a fan of spammy gameplay.

(Szakalot) #32

Shoot one in the face and finish with smg.

Shoot two in the face if its a big guy. Shoot 3 or 4 when its the biggest dude (hype).

good players that see you might be much harder to hit in open areas, spam AoE from cover, bouncy nades are perfect for that

(god1) #33

Personally I haven’t come across a single threathening Nader yet, her nades’ AoE just tickle you and her being armed with just SMGs doesn’t really help her. I don’t see her being able to do anything but destroy deployables at this point.

(Zenity) #34

[quote=“Amerika;16160”][quote=“Zenity;16150”][quote=“Amerika;16086”]I like Nader where she is personally. If she was more powerful then she would be overused and the game would be extremely spammy and you’d die to more random luck grenades than anything else.

Her main ability is area denial. For example, on Bridge, she’d be a good pick to help take the barrier room since you can easily spam the common defensive spots and disrupt the people in there from either the back side of barrier or the front door. She completely removes the ability to dig in during a lot of defensive setups. That makes her a good pick for situations but probably not a great pick for a whole map. However, I am fine with that because I don’t want this game turning into nothing but spammed projectiles you barely have to think about and aim to get kills (and even worse in the hands of somebody who is good).[/quote]

Then again, while her grenades mess the defense up a bit, Fragger’s grenades simply clear out the room. And then he goes in with his BFG to mop up any survivors.

The low recharge rate of the grenade launcher means that she can provide some fairly constant suppression fire, but for everything else Fragger just seems to be far more qualified.[/quote]

Yeah, but I’d rather see Fragger’s nades nerfed even more than have Nader get more powerful. I’d rather them all be denial weapons than main kill weapons. I’m not a fan of spammy gameplay.[/quote]

I’d love to hear the dev’s thoughts on how they see the balance and purpose between Fragger and Nader. I recall them saying something about Nader being the one who’d go in closer to the objective, but that seems so backwards to what she’s actually like. I guess they said this because of martyrdom but it’s useless, so…

Making frag grenades more of a suppression type deal would make the differentiation between them even less clear (aside from being false advertising :)).

One thing Nader got over Fragger is that her grenades don’t require cooking, which makes it easy to quickly throw one out while already aiming the SMG at another head. I really like her design from the few games I’ve played so far, and maybe she will become more effective with practice.

I just have a hard time seeing her ever rival Fragger as a killing machine, and that seems a bit odd considered that she’s a low health assault and some dev recently said on a stream that Fragger is actually supposed to more of a tank than a killing machine.

(adeto) #35

[quote=“Zenity;16169”]

[quote=“Amerika;16160”][quote=“Zenity;16150”][quote=“Amerika;16086”]I like Nader where she is personally. If she was more powerful then she would be overused and the game would be extremely spammy and you’d die to more random luck grenades than anything else.

Her main ability is area denial. For example, on Bridge, she’d be a good pick to help take the barrier room since you can easily spam the common defensive spots and disrupt the people in there from either the back side of barrier or the front door. She completely removes the ability to dig in during a lot of defensive setups. That makes her a good pick for situations but probably not a great pick for a whole map. However, I am fine with that because I don’t want this game turning into nothing but spammed projectiles you barely have to think about and aim to get kills (and even worse in the hands of somebody who is good).[/quote]

Then again, while her grenades mess the defense up a bit, Fragger’s grenades simply clear out the room. And then he goes in with his BFG to mop up any survivors.

The low recharge rate of the grenade launcher means that she can provide some fairly constant suppression fire, but for everything else Fragger just seems to be far more qualified.[/quote]

Yeah, but I’d rather see Fragger’s nades nerfed even more than have Nader get more powerful. I’d rather them all be denial weapons than main kill weapons. I’m not a fan of spammy gameplay.[/quote]

I’d love to hear the dev’s thoughts on how they see the balance and purpose between Fragger and Nader. I recall them saying something about Nader being the one who’d go in closer to the objective, but that seems so backwards to what she’s actually like. I guess they said this because of martyrdom but it’s useless, so…

Making frag grenades more of a suppression type deal would make the differentiation between them even less clear (aside from being false advertising :)).

One thing Nader got over Fragger is that her grenades don’t require cooking, which makes it easy to quickly throw one out while already aiming the SMG at another head. I really like her design from the few games I’ve played so far, and maybe she will become more effective with practice.

I just have a hard time seeing her ever rival Fragger as a killing machine, and that seems a bit odd considered that she’s a low health assault and some dev recently said on a stream that Fragger is actually supposed to more of a tank than a killing machine.[/quote]

Fragger = Damage+Entry Fragging (Attacking chokepoints)
Nader = Crowd/Map Control (Holding chokepoints)

(avidCow) #36

I watched plenty of good Nader players last night wreaking havoc from a safe distance. She is excellent at completely disrupting the enemy team’s position. What’s a buff for? Your kdr?

(NuclearSharkhead) #37

What’s Nader’s nade cooldown time compared to Fragger’s? I think it’s important that we know this when comparing these two. So far nobody has mentioned this.

(Zenity) #38

[quote=“adeto;16172”][quote=“Zenity;16169”]

[quote=“Amerika;16160”][quote=“Zenity;16150”][quote=“Amerika;16086”]I like Nader where she is personally. If she was more powerful then she would be overused and the game would be extremely spammy and you’d die to more random luck grenades than anything else.

Her main ability is area denial. For example, on Bridge, she’d be a good pick to help take the barrier room since you can easily spam the common defensive spots and disrupt the people in there from either the back side of barrier or the front door. She completely removes the ability to dig in during a lot of defensive setups. That makes her a good pick for situations but probably not a great pick for a whole map. However, I am fine with that because I don’t want this game turning into nothing but spammed projectiles you barely have to think about and aim to get kills (and even worse in the hands of somebody who is good).[/quote]

Then again, while her grenades mess the defense up a bit, Fragger’s grenades simply clear out the room. And then he goes in with his BFG to mop up any survivors.

The low recharge rate of the grenade launcher means that she can provide some fairly constant suppression fire, but for everything else Fragger just seems to be far more qualified.[/quote]

Yeah, but I’d rather see Fragger’s nades nerfed even more than have Nader get more powerful. I’d rather them all be denial weapons than main kill weapons. I’m not a fan of spammy gameplay.[/quote]

I’d love to hear the dev’s thoughts on how they see the balance and purpose between Fragger and Nader. I recall them saying something about Nader being the one who’d go in closer to the objective, but that seems so backwards to what she’s actually like. I guess they said this because of martyrdom but it’s useless, so…

Making frag grenades more of a suppression type deal would make the differentiation between them even less clear (aside from being false advertising :)).

One thing Nader got over Fragger is that her grenades don’t require cooking, which makes it easy to quickly throw one out while already aiming the SMG at another head. I really like her design from the few games I’ve played so far, and maybe she will become more effective with practice.

I just have a hard time seeing her ever rival Fragger as a killing machine, and that seems a bit odd considered that she’s a low health assault and some dev recently said on a stream that Fragger is actually supposed to more of a tank than a killing machine.[/quote]

Fragger = Damage+Entry Fragging (Attacking chokepoints)
Nader = Crowd/Map Control (Holding chokepoints)[/quote]

Yeah that seems about right. I actually forgot about the in-game profiles, which do give some information about intend. Fragger is the frontline guy (defense and offense), whereas Nader pops in and out of cover to spam the chokepoints with explosives.

Playing her a bit more, I realise how valuable it is to have a constantly recharging grenade launcher at hand, which does not rely on ammo boxes or fire support. It doesn’t do too much, but it does something and it doesn’t cost anything.

I like her more and more. Only martyrdom is pretty dumb IMO, and I hope that it will be changed again not to cancel on gib. Right now the only thing this ability seems to do is make sure everybody gibs you immediately on publics, so it’s kind of an anti-ability.

(Milky Mac) #39

the dmg for nader my only issue is the bounciness of the nades. its almost impossible to lob them upward to kill camping snipers because they just bounce way off the walls

(Viquel) #40

[quote=“Zenity;16194”]
I like her more and more. Only martyrdom is pretty dumb IMO, and I hope that it will be changed again not to cancel on gib. Right now the only thing this ability seems to do is make sure everybody gibs you immediately on publics, so it’s kind of an anti-ability.[/quote]

That would be pretty nice - If you were killed by a shotgun, and immediately hit the ability key, they still finish you nice and without change of pace with the knife.

The martyr kills are only by accident for me, on few occasions I got two victims, once or twice three: the quick melee missed and I could almost hear them go “crap”