From what I’ve played with so far…those subtle buffs really helped, it’d definitely easier to land directs at a farther distance, and it’s easier to deal with clusters as Nader, which is part of her role I think.
The only thing now is, does the nade do 100 on direct or not? And why don’t they gib?
It does at least 80, I’ve directly hit a couple of Auras and as for gibbing one could say it has to do with Nader being more quantity and not quality, you can gib while downed though if people are right on you I believe.
Just a random idea, but what if the following happened
Martyrdom is now changed to where Nader must have at least 1 nade in reserve in order to use Martyrdom.
1 less nade in total
Maybe slightly slower recharge on nades
All that in exchange for a damage buff to nades, enough to deal 100 damage on direct, 15% shorter arm distance (so directs are available at slightly closer ranges), and best of all, nades will now gib on direct hit kills.
I feel that she’s in a good place right now. You can’t repeatedly spam five nades while alive, yet if you catch a gib at the worst possible time, once you reach the enemy again you’re back to a fully charged ability.
People are overly upset over martyrdom as well. It is so easy to avoid unless the enemy truly goes for a suicide attack and nestles their corpse into a cluster of your team. That’s on you for clustering and on you for not scattering. In my book it’s not near bad enough as a Fragger slaughtering a crowd with a timed frag.
[quote=“Watsyurdeal;21668”]
All that in exchange for a damage buff to nades, enough to deal 100 damage on direct, 15% shorter arm distance (so directs are available at slightly closer ranges), and best of all, nades will now gib on direct hit kills.[/quote]
agreed.
direct hits should not be punished at close range except for pointblack.
and a nice twist on martyrdom.
So after I played several matches with nader here is my opinion.
The faster travel time is nice for sure. It is easier to land directs and do the flanking/spamming game on pups especially on US servers (I don’t know why but alot of US players seem to value good aiming over erratic movement making it fairly easy for Nader.)
However I also took her a couple rounds into competive and that looked rather bleak.
Granted I’m no pro far from it.
But still direct hits against good players are near impossible.
One devastating scene had me wasting 5 nades against a Sawbones not only did he dodge every direct hit atempt he also avoided every amount of splashdamage.
Let’s talk a little bit about damage. In one match I scored a direct hit against a full Vassili he scored a headshot having 10% hp. Which Pegs a direct hit at 90 damage, I also landed several directs against rhinos who where still standing after 2 directs further confirming a sub 100 damage for directs.
Now to my knowledge the Nades work like this. Splashdamage + Directhit bonus damage = 90
I think I saw a old patchnote (january beta) that talked about increasing the direct bonus to 20. That gives a single nade 70 Damage in the center.
That means a single nade wont kill an Aura standing directly ontop of it.
On the other hand a fragger nade will gibb pretty much everybody when he stands ontop of it.
Now consider that one has the ability to prime it making it unavoidable and the other has a large fusetime making it unlikely to even score the 70.
I guess what I try to say is that her AOE capability is way too weak especially considering that damage is the only thing Nader constributes to her team.
Right now, there is not one job another merc doesn’t do better than her.
If I would have to buff her I would raise her Splashdamage by atleast 10. That would mean directs would oneshot vassili and Rhino dies after 2 (let’s not kidd ourself he gets revived anyways). it would also mean her nades stay a tad little more effective over range and deal a little bit more damage against Generators/EVs. making her overall a little bit more effective.
and maybe atleast a ok alternative over other mercs in certain scenarios/merc combinations
I see her as a faster fragger, and rather than trying on the aoe or radius of the nades, she relies on the raw damage of them, which I feel is the next step for her. Making those nades deal more damage, in exchange for one less nade, and requiring you have at least one when you get downed to perform martyrdom.
She’s not tanky but very light, and I think that aspect should not change. But the thing the other assaults have on her, is raw damage output, which she lacks.
She did not need the recent velocity buff… you can lob those things across the map, which already was a reason why they added more gravity to the Frag nade to prevent such “Long range explosive spam snipping”.
I’d rather have them roll back this buff
[quote=“distinquishedSandwich;22338”]She did not need the recent velocity buff… you can lob those things across the map, which already was a reason why they added more gravity to the Frag nade to prevent such “Long range explosive spam snipping”.
I’d rather have them roll back this buff[/quote]
If you’re getting hit at a distance by them your movement probably sucks, no offense. The buff was exactly what she needed, her whole role revolves around landing those nade hits, since Fragger’s are arguably better than hers just for the sake of the damage radius and raw power of being able to cook them.
Also bumping this because I feel it’s still relevant, I feel like the next best step for Nader is as follows
I’ve been playing Nader for a bit, she’s even threatening to take Kira off of my Merc Rotation when RedEye drops. Mainly because she’s capable of line busting, and SMGs are very easy for me to use with this Game’s pace.
However, she could use some changes.
She has Kira’s speed, but 20 more HP, and a far less situational Q ability. Less Speed, or Less Health would help balance her better.
I don’t feel like Martyrdom really needs to have one left in the chamber to work, but it does need a longer fuse time, Three Quarters of a second is going to get the drop on anyone – especially Aura, Proxy, Sawbones, Fletcher, Rhino, and Bushwhacker. Though, I would like for it scale up in either affected area, or damage based on her ammo count when she goes down. I’d also like for it be activatable, so that she can suicide bomb an objective or choke point to clear the way for her team even when she’s consumed her MGL.
The MGL is fine. The damage could stand to be higher – Need 2-3 to put down Fragger on direct impacts is not a good thing, when he’s capable of gibbing us with a single grenade that he can cook off, not to mention he has access to a superior set of primary weapons. The damage seems to be about 90-95 as it does one-bang Kira.
I’d even upgrade weapons to an Assault Rifle Primary.
uhm even tho I complemented your stats finding skills in the other tread goodField I have to backpedal a little bit. Nader is not as fast as Kira kira has a movespeed of 450 and Nader 420. A direct hit as I stated in my last post in the tread is definitive 90.
As far as balancing goes. I think apart from a small 10 damage buff to amplify both her indirect and direct hits just slightly (and to reward long distance, countersnipe direct hits).
She is in a good spot. Now that fraggers damage output is a little bit lower. She is still situational and needs a team that knows how to capitalize on her but if she gets that she can shine.
I don’t think that reducing her grenade capacity’s would be a good Idea tho while I can see why people would want it but the DPS you would lose would warrant a pretty steep damage increase to compensate resulting in oneshot 110-120 mercs would be pretty unpopular.
HP increase for speed decrease I don’t like she already got one and she is the female (fast) frame of the assault class. further changing does stats would make her one of the medium mercs. shorter arming distance is one of those little quality of life buffs I would like to see tho.
So then definitely try upping the damage a bit, and try a shorter arm distance and see what happens from there.
[quote=“Gi.Am;25545”]uhm even tho I complemented your stats finding skills in the other tread goodField I have to backpedal a little bit. Nader is not as fast as Kira kira has a movespeed of 450 and Nader 420. A direct hit as I stated in my last post in the tread is definitive 90.
As far as balancing goes. I think apart from a small 10 damage buff to amplify both her indirect and direct hits just slightly (and to reward long distance, countersnipe direct hits).
She is in a good spot. Now that fraggers damage output is a little bit lower. She is still situational and needs a team that knows how to capitalize on her but if she gets that she can shine.
I don’t think that reducing her grenade capacity’s would be a good Idea tho while I can see why people would want it but the DPS you would lose would warrant a pretty steep damage increase to compensate resulting in oneshot 110-120 mercs would be pretty unpopular.
HP increase for speed decrease I don’t like she already got one and she is the female (fast) frame of the assault class. further changing does stats would make her one of the medium mercs. shorter arming distance is one of those little quality of life buffs I would like to see tho.[/quote]
Carrying a Knife, vs. a Kira carrying a Pistol I’ve out run her by a country-mile. The difference in their speeds is very minimal. Kira would gain slowly over Nader with both wielding a knife. I estimate between 0 and 10. I could agree on 420 – but Kira’s speed is definitely under that of both Proxy and Aura who have a definite speed of 450. If we base it off the Stat Screen in game, Nader should outpace Kira at 4/5 vs Kira’s 2/5 but that’s not the current case it seems.
Seems our sources for basing these things are off in a major way.
[quote=“goodField;25633”][quote=“Gi.Am;25545”]uhm even tho I complemented your stats finding skills in the other tread goodField I have to backpedal a little bit. Nader is not as fast as Kira kira has a movespeed of 450 and Nader 420. A direct hit as I stated in my last post in the tread is definitive 90.
As far as balancing goes. I think apart from a small 10 damage buff to amplify both her indirect and direct hits just slightly (and to reward long distance, countersnipe direct hits).
She is in a good spot. Now that fraggers damage output is a little bit lower. She is still situational and needs a team that knows how to capitalize on her but if she gets that she can shine.
I don’t think that reducing her grenade capacity’s would be a good Idea tho while I can see why people would want it but the DPS you would lose would warrant a pretty steep damage increase to compensate resulting in oneshot 110-120 mercs would be pretty unpopular.
HP increase for speed decrease I don’t like she already got one and she is the female (fast) frame of the assault class. further changing does stats would make her one of the medium mercs. shorter arming distance is one of those little quality of life buffs I would like to see tho.[/quote]
Carrying a Knife, vs. a Kira carrying a Pistol I’ve out run her by a country-mile. The difference in their speeds is very minimal. Kira would gain slowly over Nader with both wielding a knife. I estimate between 0 and 10. I could agree on 420 – but Kira’s speed is definitely under that of both Proxy and Aura who have a definite speed of 450. If we base it off the Stat Screen in game, Nader should outpace Kira at 4/5 vs Kira’s 2/5 but that’s not the current case it seems.
Seems our sources for basing these things are off in a major way.
[/quote]
check in-game barracks for speed & hp stats. that is at least always up to date in-game
[quote=“goodField;25633”]Carrying a Knife, vs. a Kira carrying a Pistol I’ve out run her by a country-mile. The difference in their speeds is very minimal. Kira would gain slowly over Nader with both wielding a knife. I estimate between 0 and 10. I could agree on 420 – but Kira’s speed is definitely under that of both Proxy and Aura who have a definite speed of 450. If we base it off the Stat Screen in game, Nader should outpace Kira at 4/5 vs Kira’s 2/5 but that’s not the current case it seems.
Seems our sources for basing these things are off in a major way.[/quote]Uh…Aura is 470, Proxy is 450, Kira is 450, and Nader is 420 (which, considering she’s heavy weapons, you’d think she’d have a slower move speed).
Anyways, anyone else think her grenades’ AoE are a bit too big? I’ve gotten hit by those things standing more than five meters away.
I think due to how powerful the grenade launcher is they should remove martyrdom entirely. I feel like it would be similar to rhino having another ability besides his minigun. He’s powerful enough already,and so is nader.