My thoughts on the burst rifles

[CCP1151]

The Stark is awesome. Seriously, I have always wanted to use this gun, and now I can. Before it was a sad BR, and now it is a hell of a beast.
My complaint with the Stark is that the sight is STILL a roll of toilet paper stuck on top. There is no magnification, what’s up with that?
And the triple burst HS only racks up 108 damage, that’s 8 damage wasted. It would be nice if it reached a break point, but it doesn’t matter much.

As for the BR? It’s just bad. The fire rate is too slow for CQC to be anything aside from terrible. They want to differentiate the two rifles, and this is how they go about doing it?

I’m telling you SD, change the BR back. It was a spammy burst rifle, and was Arty and Kira’s attempt at CQC. If you change it back, then the two burst rifles would be incredibly different, which is what everyone wants.

Also adding a SCAR as a third burst rifles would be cool.

[ProfPlump]

[quote=“CCP115;19970”]The Stark is awesome. Seriously, I have always wanted to use this gun, and now I can. Before it was a sad BR, and now it is a hell of a beast.
My complaint with the Stark is that the sight is STILL a roll of toilet paper stuck on top. There is no magnification, what’s up with that?
And the triple burst HS only racks up 108 damage, that’s 8 damage wasted. It would be nice if it reached a break point, but it doesn’t matter much.

As for the BR? It’s just bad. The fire rate is too slow for CQC to be anything aside from terrible. They want to differentiate the two rifles, and this is how they go about doing it?

I’m telling you SD, change the BR back. It was a spammy burst rifle, and was Arty and Kira’s attempt at CQC. If you change it back, then the two burst rifles would be incredibly different, which is what everyone wants.

Also adding a SCAR as a third burst rifles would be cool.[/quote]

Well, first off, the burst rifles aren’t supposed to be good in CQC - they’re supposed to be medium range powerhouses (although they are still a little average in medium range, but we’ll get to that later).

Second, the “8 damage that is wasted” is a silly assumption, because that 8 extra damage gives it a little bit more damage at range as well (because when the damage starts to drop off, it won’t do that full damage, and will start to do 105, 102 and 99 damage as the distance between you and your target becomes larger.

The main issue with the BR-16 and the Stark is that while they’re supposed to be used for medium range and be average at close and long ranges, they’re actually not that good at medium range due to their poor damage drop off over distance and high recoil/spread compared to the M4A1. SD need to give these rifles (and the Dreiss AR) a less radical drop off in damage, so that they can truly be better than the M4A1 in medium range. This doesn’t mean that they increase the max damage at all - it just means that that damage won’t diminish as dramatically as your target becomes further and further away.

[CCP1151]

[quote=“ProfPlump;107124”]
Well, first off, the burst rifles aren’t supposed to be good in CQC - they’re supposed to be medium range powerhouses (although they are still a little average in medium range, but we’ll get to that later).

Second, the “8 damage that is wasted” is a silly assumption, because that 8 extra damage gives it a little bit more damage at range as well (because when the damage starts to drop off, it won’t do that full damage, and will start to do 105, 102 and 99 damage as the distance between you and your target becomes larger.

The main issue with the BR-16 and the Stark is that while they’re supposed to be used for medium range and be average at close and long ranges, they’re actually not that good at medium range due to their poor damage drop off over distance and high recoil/spread compared to the M4A1. SD need to give these rifles (and the Dreiss AR) a less radical drop off in damage, so that they can truly be better than the M4A1 in medium range. This doesn’t mean that they increase the max damage at all - it just means that that damage won’t diminish as dramatically as your target becomes further and further away.[/quote]

You say they aren’t supposed to be good in CQC, and I’m fine with that, but realistically, two mercs already are stuck with the Dreiss and the two bursts. Are Arty and Kira just never supposed to be closed range? I find that to be hard to believe, especially in some maps (underground) where Arty and Kira are borderline terrible.

If the BR just shot faster and did less damage then that would stand up a bit better in CQC.

[Amerika]

I’ve seen multiple times that the burst rifles are bad in CQC and I just don’t agree. If you don’t panic and hit your shots you chunk people down so fast. Especially if you have the advantage of using any kind of a door or throw in a crouch to throw them off long enough for another burst to rip into them. I’ve had as much success with them in CQC as I do the M4. But I’ve also got a lot of time in with the Dreiss and GR which are similar in regards to “don’t panic and they are good”.

However, what I think should be done is put the BR16 back to the way it was or nearly the way it was. Tune the stark to not have you looking through a pringles can with no zooming if you ADS and reduce the ranged recoil on bursts just a bit while ADS’ing (and add 3 more bullets to the mag please).

This would let people have the old style burst weapons in the BR16 and the current burst style of the Stark. I personally love the BR16 right now but we honestly don’t need two weapons who are mostly identical. There is no solid reason I can think of why the BR16 couldn’t go back to the way it was and leave the stark where it is now.

[retief]

I think burst rifles’ cqb performance is actually pretty good right now – hard to use and similar to the m4 if you use them well. The problem is that they aren’t that good anywhere else.

My personal wish list is significantly reduced recoil on the first 2 shots but increased recoil on the third. Maybe lower cof bloom as well, but the bloom doesn’t seem to bad right now. Make them harder to use in cqb (compared to the m4) but really good at putting a highly accurate burst into someone’s head.

For the stark, I think 19 or 20 damage per shot but increased time between bursts would make sense (in addition to the other changes). Focus it around landing one headshot burst while the br-16 has better sustained dps.

I think the dreiss could use something similar. Improve the cof bloom (so you can actually hit something if you spam shots), and maybe nerf firerate slightly if the gun ends up overtuned. Give it the accuracy you would expect from a semi auto rifle.

[CCP1151]

[quote=“Amerika;107385”]
This would let people have the old style burst weapons in the BR16 and the current burst style of the Stark. I personally love the BR16 right now but we honestly don’t need two weapons who are mostly identical. There is no solid reason I can think of why the BR16 couldn’t go back to the way it was and leave the stark where it is now.[/quote]

Basically what I’ve been pushing for this whole time, if SD wants to differentiate the guns, why not change the BR back? It was fine before.

[Amerika]

[quote=“CCP115;107631”][quote=“Amerika;107385”]
This would let people have the old style burst weapons in the BR16 and the current burst style of the Stark. I personally love the BR16 right now but we honestly don’t need two weapons who are mostly identical. There is no solid reason I can think of why the BR16 couldn’t go back to the way it was and leave the stark where it is now.[/quote]

Basically what I’ve been pushing for this whole time, if SD wants to differentiate the guns, why not change the BR back? It was fine before.[/quote]

I prefer the new version of it but the Stark is so similar it doesn’t matter too much and I don’t see why we can’t have both types. But I’ve been wanting SD to do that with the Timik for a long time too. Turn it into a slower but heavier hitting/harder to control rifle similar to the CS AK as opposed to what it is right now…harder to control version of the M4 with a higher RoF that doesn’t offset the random wandering and the increased recoil very well. It’s usable but I’d like it to be different than the M4 in more than a superficial nature.

[FalC_16]

[quote=“CCP115;107631”][quote=“Amerika;107385”]
This would let people have the old style burst weapons in the BR16 and the current burst style of the Stark. I personally love the BR16 right now but we honestly don’t need two weapons who are mostly identical. There is no solid reason I can think of why the BR16 couldn’t go back to the way it was and leave the stark where it is now.[/quote]

Basically what I’ve been pushing for this whole time, if SD wants to differentiate the guns, why not change the BR back? It was fine before.[/quote]

I also think that mercs like Kira or Arty need at least some chance not to lose fight in CQC. BR was a bit spammy true, but they really nerfed it to the stone age, which is beyond me. I loved arty with that gun…now I don’t really play him…Stark is just annoying to play with as its obscuring my screen. Dunno I spent some time playing with the new burst rifles, but still…its not my play-style anymore.

[CCP1151]

[quote=“FalC_16;108586”][quote=“CCP115;107631”][quote=“Amerika;107385”]
This would let people have the old style burst weapons in the BR16 and the current burst style of the Stark. I personally love the BR16 right now but we honestly don’t need two weapons who are mostly identical. There is no solid reason I can think of why the BR16 couldn’t go back to the way it was and leave the stark where it is now.[/quote]

Basically what I’ve been pushing for this whole time, if SD wants to differentiate the guns, why not change the BR back? It was fine before.[/quote]

I also think that mercs like Kira or Arty need at least some chance not to lose fight in CQC. BR was a bit spammy true, but they really nerfed it to the stone age, which is beyond me. I loved arty with that gun…now I don’t really play him…Stark is just annoying to play with as its obscuring my screen. Dunno I spent some time playing with the new burst rifles, but still…its not my play-style anymore.[/quote]

These new changes look amazing though, now we can actually find out the real fire rate of the bursts.

[Ritobasu]

Kira and Arty do very well with the new changes now and are capable of holding their own in CQB

For those who never bothered using macros, the new burst delay “fix” mimics the old pre-CW burst delay so all you really have to deal with is a burst ROF nerf, but keeping the new damage and mag size makes up for it