[QUOTE=biggyyyb;432789]All the competitive community needs is the tools to be able to configure (server and client side) the game to suit competition as it evolves. This is how Quake, RTCW, Enemy Territory etc. evolved into solid competitive games.
True that they were never as big as CS, CoD or Battlefield but that will always be the case as long as the respective franchises keep pumping out “sequels” on an annual basis.[/QUOTE]
A lot of the titles I mentioned have those tools though 
Q3 has been around for ages, QL is just a carbon copy of that. I wouldn’t even consider this a team based game either. When I think Q3 I think arena DM. UT3, another arena DM, failed because they tried to dumb it down for console players (other reasons as well.) I couldn’t stomache playing that for more than a few hours and I’m a pretty big UT fan (played UT2K3 and UT2K4 a lot.)
Tribes I can’t really say much about, I tried it out, didn’t like playing on ice skates and never touched it again, just not my style of FPS.
Lets look at real, fast pace class based team games:
RtCW - Successful for 4+ years
WET - Still played today!
TF2 - Successful for who knows how many years and still played today
ETQW - I didn’t play this too much because I’m not a fan of vehicles.
Brink - The list of reasons why this game failed is extensive, by no means should this game be used as a reason to not build a true, fast pace class based game.
I was going to put Bad Company 2 and then I started laughing at how trolly it sounded because their is nothing fast about this game, though it is team based and was somewhat enjoyable.
If I missed any that are more recent go ahead and list them.
What I’m getting at here is that their hasn’t been a “true” fast pace class based team game released for several years. SD can fill that niche and perhaps expand off of it but it feels like you’re scared to do so and instead add elements to slow the game down (escort, speed acceleration, sprint cancel on every action, objective touch times etc.)
You guys really just need to cut the bull **** out and make a smooth simple game and expand off of it. That doesn’t mean bloat it with a bunch of half ass mechanics to make it awkward. That means to add depth while staying true to the smooth and simple mentality (KISS.)
Edit: On another note if you’re trying to make another 10 year game I believe those times have passed unless you make a ground breaking MMO or an entirely new genre.
Good post - especially this bit. A simple and smooth team and objective based shooter. For better or worse it will stand out against the clunky and slow dross we have to put up with these days!
strychzilla, you left out Wolfenstien 2009! Bad on many levels but also fun for comp and had some decent maps IMO.
I preferred it to Brink, apart from that one gun (can’t remember the name) the weapons were rather balanced, the special powers weren’t that wacky and were balanced, the maps were nice and simple, 2-3 stages and not too many side objectives or routes and looked rather nice and detailed. However the engine was not fixed at all and based off an early version of etqw, that was the main problem for me, engine troubles. The biggest problem for many was it was called Wolfenstein, people expected RTCW2 and it was marketed as such, it wasn’t. It could have been a lot worse too, we found some really odd things in the pk4s when working on the promod like magical deployables.
CS sells itself because it has a solid competitive scene as for CoD and BF they spend $100 million plus in campaigns for their franchise.
Yes, those three games have very many reasons for their player bases, that have nothing to do wiht actual game mechanics.
The “fast” games Anti listed are also all arena shooters, except Firefall which is (mostly) third person MMO. As Strychzilla said, they are nowhere near the games he listed.
Trying to mimic CS/CoD/BF isn’t going to bring any players over from those titles, because everything DB might try to mimic the originals do a lot better, and they already have an established playerbase.
I think we’re all on the same page that we don’t want an arena shooter, but we definitely don’t want a sluggish game.
ET could/should have been a ‘CS’!
An engine/gfx update every 5 years and the odd new map and job done - an institutionalised franchise full of old fogies and leet kiddies who wouldn’t even think about playing anything else.
Please don’t call that game Wolfenstein. It is just 2009 (doesn’t deserve to have wolf in the title.) That is quite possibly the worst game I ever played. I actually contacted Activision, mailed them my opened game, and had them mail me a sealed copy so I could return it to the store for a refund. I’ve never had to do that for a game before but I refused to pay for that ****.
Edit: On second thought, it might not have been “that” bad. I was completely expecting RtCW 2 and was thoroughly let down. I don’t think I’ve picked up an Activision produced game since then.
wolf 2009 was great. okay at least it had some key features in the multiplayer i liked. map size was fine. also the weaponbalance with the help of hannes’s promod.
[QUOTE=Maca;432920]Yes, those three games have very many reasons for their player bases, that have nothing to do wiht actual game mechanics.
The “fast” games Anti listed are also all arena shooters, except Firefall which is (mostly) third person MMO. As Strychzilla said, they are nowhere near the games he listed.
Trying to mimic CS/CoD/BF isn’t going to bring any players over from those titles, because everything DB might try to mimic the originals do a lot better, and they already have an established playerbase.
I think we’re all on the same page that we don’t want an arena shooter, but we definitely don’t want a sluggish game.[/QUOTE]
I’m not suggesting we mimic those games, just to be clear. My point was more that the PC FPS market is way more varied now in terms of what players want than it was 10 years ago. Whilst you folks seem to hate the idea that we might have to consider that fact, we still have to consider that fact, because we all like having jobs
The fine line we have to keep treading is that we want to produce a game that harks back to the fun of games like ETQW and ET, that were simple to use but deep in terms of mechanics and team work, and at the same time bring that into the year 2013 and ensure that it still has some appeal to players who have never experienced anything like ET before and who will, frankly, be scared by it.
I think that is something we can achieve, but it won’t be possible if all we do is copy a game like ET to the Nth degree. That’s where you guys come in, you need to point out the sacred cows to us that we shouldn’t be touching and at the same time be willing to tell us where you think improvements can be made over the ‘old skool’ games
[QUOTE=Anti;432939]I’m not suggesting we mimic those games, just to be clear. My point was more that the PC FPS market is way more varied now in terms of what players want than it was 10 years ago. Whilst you folks seem to hate the idea that we might have to consider that fact, we still have to consider that fact, because we all like having jobs
The fine line we have to keep treading is that we want to produce a game that harks back to the fun of games like ETQW and ET, that were simple to use but deep in terms of mechanics and team work, and at the same time bring that into the year 2013 and ensure that it still has some appeal to players who have never experienced anything like ET before and who will, frankly, be scared by it.
I think that is something we can achieve, but it won’t be possible if all we do is copy a game like ET to the Nth degree. That’s where you guys come in, you need to point out the sacred cows to us that we shouldn’t be touching and at the same time be willing to tell us where you think improvements can be made over the ‘old skool’ games :)[/QUOTE]
Jesus Anti, I’ve been sayin that the whole time. You should be copying RtCW.
Don’t listen to anyone,you finally have the ability to make the game Splash Damage wants, make it
Sacred Cow #1 - Class based team play with objectives
Sacred Cow #2 - Movement and shooting
that is all.
[QUOTE=Nail;433024]Don’t listen to anyone,you finally have the ability to make the game Splash Damage wants, make it
Yep, I think the same as strychzilla. “Don’t listen to anyone”, do you think we are here for a joke? The whole alpha would be useless, if they don’t listen to the suggestions from us. :rolleyes:
I think, SD is making the game they want, but this time they can listen to the community and ask for advices/listen to suggestions and they arent forced by a publisher to do this and that.