needs more doc run maps, like adler,frosty and ice most intense objective mode
Not only are these really exciting to play and watch. It helps cup admins get events finished quicker!
My suggestions for making Dirty Bomb a good tournament game
potty200
(potty200)
#41
Anti
(Anti)
#42
We’re aware there are map flow issues, with smaller teams especially, in fact we thought these issues would exist 3-4 months ago before you folks even mentioned them 
We’ll be looking for ways to address these going forwards. We also plan to specifically use Echo data on just 5v5 and 6v6 clans games at some point to evaluate balance with those team sizes without data from public sessions affecting them. It’s just not our top priority right now, we are still in closed alpha after all.
As Kendle said, it’s way to earlier to be judging the games suitability for competition.
papa519
(papa519)
#43
What made RTCW/ET so great were the doc running maps. So intense. Need more maps like… breach a wall, get a forward spawn point, grab docs and take them to transmitter! Actually… those are the only maps we really need ;p
Hundopercent
(Hundopercent)
#46
[QUOTE=Anti;430667]We’re aware there are map flow issues, with smaller teams especially, in fact we thought these issues would exist 3-4 months ago before you folks even mentioned them
We’ll be looking for ways to address these going forwards. We also plan to specifically use Echo data on just 5v5 and 6v6 clans games at some point to evaluate balance with those team sizes without data from public sessions affecting them. It’s just not our top priority right now, we are still in closed alpha after all.
As Kendle said, it’s way to earlier to be judging the games suitability for competition.[/QUOTE]
Putting it bluntly your track record with games isn’t exactly stellar. Your most notable/successful game was a copy of an already successful game (RtCW) and even that game (for me and other top RtCW players) didn’t feel right. id software has left a void that really only your company can fill and you have yet to capitalize on that (8+ years now.)
The core of the game has been established, we have a feel for how the game will be on release, unless you openly state that their will be drastic changes to the movement (sprint cancel, back pedal speed, strafe speed, air control, faster and smoother weapon switching), map design (less escort/brink maps and more doc capture/bomb plants) etc. So yes, TTKs may change, maps may open up and close, but it will still be within a structured limit. The maps will still be long, linear, and boring (LB/WC.) How many times has it been mentioned for some static colored xhairs, some better team differentiation, and less damage lag/better hit reg? Instead we got lowered strafe speed, less air control, excessive screen shake (I mean ****ing excessive), and worse optimization.
So no, it isn’t too early to tell if the game will be competitive or not. Given your history and previous/current map design it is very easy to tell how the game will be. You state it’s made by gamers and a lot of us are asking for A and you’re giving us B.
Keep in mind I’m not asking for SD to do exactly as we say because we aren’t game designers. We are gamers though, and we know what feels right and what doesn’t. Right now the maps don’t feel right and though echo is a pretty sweet tool, moving spawns forward and backward isn’t the fix. You are over complicating a very simple game genre. Just keep **** simple and build off the simplicity.
Edit: Personally, stating you knew of a problem 3 - 4 months ago and not addressing it or mentioning you were aware until we mentioned it doesn’t look good and is pretty lame. If you knew it was a problem address it or let us know you are aware so we don’t commit a lot of time making posts like this one.
Also a priority list would be nice so we know what’s top priority and actively being worked on.
BomBaKlaK
(BomBaKlaK)
#47
[QUOTE=strychzilla;430825]Putting it bluntly your track record with games isn’t exactly stellar. Your most notable/successful game was a copy of an already successful game (RtCW) and even that game (for me and other top RtCW players) didn’t feel right. id software has left a void that really only your company can fill and you have yet to capitalize on that (8+ years now.)
The core of the game has been established, we have a feel for how the game will be on release, unless you openly state that their will be drastic changes to the movement (sprint cancel, back pedal speed, strafe speed, air control, faster and smoother weapon switching), map design (less escort/brink maps and more doc capture/bomb plants) etc. So yes, TTKs may change, maps may open up and close, but it will still be within a structured limit. The maps will still be long, linear, and boring (LB/WC.) How many times has it been mentioned for some static colored xhairs, some better team differentiation, and less damage lag/better hit reg? Instead we got lowered strafe speed, less air control, excessive screen shake (I mean ****ing excessive), and worse optimization.
So no, it isn’t too early to tell if the game will be competitive or not. Given your history and previous/current map design it is very easy to tell how the game will be. You state it’s made by gamers and a lot of us are asking for A and you’re giving us B.
Keep in mind I’m not asking for SD to do exactly as we say because we aren’t game designers. We are gamers though, and we know what feels right and what doesn’t. Right now the maps don’t feel right and though echo is a pretty sweet tool, moving spawns forward and backward isn’t the fix. You are over complicating a very simple game genre. Just keep **** simple and build off the simplicity.
Edit: Personally, stating you knew of a problem 3 - 4 months ago and not addressing it or mentioning you were aware until we mentioned it doesn’t look good and is pretty lame. If you knew it was a problem address it or let us know you are aware so we don’t commit a lot of time making posts like this one.
Also a priority list would be nice so we know what’s top priority and actively being worked on.[/QUOTE]
nice description !
So much things make the movement clunky. this is not fluid, everything slow you down … Jump / reload / etc …
And yes a priority list can help a lot
Volcano
(Volcano)
#48
God yes please do a priotry list, this was a huge thing for me during the NS2 alpha
ImageOmega
(ImageOmega)
#49
[QUOTE=strychzilla;430825]Keep in mind I’m not asking for SD to do exactly as we say because we aren’t game designers. We are gamers though, and we know what feels right and what doesn’t. Right now the maps don’t feel right and though echo is a pretty sweet tool, moving spawns forward and backward isn’t the fix. You are over complicating a very simple game genre. Just keep **** simple and build off the simplicity.
Edit: Personally, stating you knew of a problem 3 - 4 months ago and not addressing it or mentioning you were aware until we mentioned it doesn’t look good and is pretty lame. If you knew it was a problem address it or let us know you are aware so we don’t commit a lot of time making posts like this one.
Also a priority list would be nice so we know what’s top priority and actively being worked on.[/QUOTE]
This is true. A lot of us have been gaming competitively for 15-20 years. We have watched games come and go and we’ve seen the genre progress from a general basics gameplay standpoint to a competitive gaming environment. We may not be game developers and we may be a little bit hardcore as far as what audience you are appealing to, but this can really be re-worded to mean that we have the experience and understanding of what makes a game good. One of the outlying issues being the movement in the game as it has been restated over and over.
We understand you guys are working your tails off and I think everyone here is appreciative of all the hard work Splash Damage is doing with this game and even giving us the chance to voice our opinions. I really think having this early alpha access and ability to communicate with the developers is amazing. A priority list or an up and coming list of changes to expect would definitely be helpful to us and help quell those who are really anxious.
I think a good example of keeping things simple is what QuakeLive is. It took a winning formula from Quake 3 and turned it into a test to see if the free to play model worked for them. A bad example is Quake 4. Ask any Quake 3 player how shocked they were that they took the multiplayer from Quake 3 and completely broke it in Quake 4. I am not talking about the big difference and culture shock of a QuakeWorld player coming to Quake 2 or Quake 2 to Quake 3, I mean that they literally broke so many mechanics as they tried to change things.
Anyways, Splash Damage has my support via my small corner of the web and founder’s pack contribution. I am excited to see the changes we voice implemented.
Anti
(Anti)
#50
We’re still only about 60%-70% through feature implementation in a lot of cases, with a small team, this is why balance changes and map changes sometimes seem slow.
As I stated we’ve not even begun to start looking at 5v5 and 6v6 balance to the extent we expect to because of this, and when we do get around to doing that sort of testing we’ll have considerably more clans testing than we do right now.
I appreciate you guys have been playing in competition for a long time, but you don’t have a monopoly on that
We have a lot of guys here who used to play in clans (personally I’ve been competing for around 15 years, including in top clans for four different FPS games) and we appreciate what a huge effort it takes to make a good comp FPS game, just as we understand what needs to happen to ensure a strong community.
We’ve not always been able to pursue that goal in the way we’d like though, but with DB’s Closed Alpha we’re getting the chance to do that, you just have to understand that this early in development balance wont change as quickly as it will in the last few months before release.
MrEd
(MrEd)
#51
DB is not like other games on the market; it’s not aiming to be a fixed point product that releases to end users in a final state with a fixed content set or locked design elements. It’s games as a service where the game is shaped by the requirements of its community with the goal of long term engagement.
No longer are the gamers just critics and consumers, everyone’s a designer now and that requires a massive change in the way both the developers and the gamers think about the game.
As a developer I would not ask the question, “why is this going to fail?” What I would ask is:
- “What do I want to achieve?”
- “How close does the current implementation get to achieving the intended results?”
- “What’s the best thing I can do next to get towards the final goal?”
So as a member of the DB Closed Alpha community you have the power to change things. If the maps are your biggest concern then don’t wait for us to make new maps, get together with some other members of the community, get Sketchup or the UDK or just pen and paper and start sketching down your own map designs and then post them back up here to the Closed Alpha forums. Let the design shine through and make us support your block out maps on the VIP Alpha Test Servers like we do with Camden.
Most importantly, don’t think why things are going to fail, think why they’re going to succeed.
rookie1
(rookie1)
#52
[QUOTE=MrEd;430981]…So as a member of the DB Closed Alpha community you have the power to change things. If the maps are your biggest concern then don’t wait for us to make new maps, get together with some other members of the community, get Sketchup or the UDK or just pen and paper and start sketching down your own map designs and then post them back up here to the Closed Alpha forums. Let the design shine through and make us support your block out maps on the VIP Alpha Test Servers like we do with Camden.
Most importantly, don’t think why things are going to fail, think why they’re going to succeed…[/QUOTE]
Thats a good statement …wasnt sure if SD like it if we were too Sketcher …Nice post Mr Ed thank you
MrEd
(MrEd)
#53
I can’t guarantee we can support custom maps or anything (you’ll need to pester Paul for that) but so long as you stick within the NDA, why only stick to words to get your ideas across?
potty200
(potty200)
#54
I think having community maps/custom maps was the only reason ET is played still today. I have seen people talk about this issue but I sat on the fence untill I really gave it some thought. Can only see custom maps adding to DB’s public appeal.
Rex
(Rex)
#55
[QUOTE=MrEd;430981]DB is not like other games on the market; it’s not aiming to be a fixed point product that releases to end users in a final state with a fixed content set or locked design elements. It’s games as a service where the game is shaped by the requirements of its community with the goal of long term engagement.
No longer are the gamers just critics and consumers, everyone’s a designer now and that requires a massive change in the way both the developers and the gamers think about the game.
As a developer I would not ask the question, “why is this going to fail?” What I would ask is:
- “What do I want to achieve?”
- “How close does the current implementation get to achieving the intended results?”
- “What’s the best thing I can do next to get towards the final goal?”
So as a member of the DB Closed Alpha community you have the power to change things. If the maps are your biggest concern then don’t wait for us to make new maps, get together with some other members of the community, get Sketchup or the UDK or just pen and paper and start sketching down your own map designs and then post them back up here to the Closed Alpha forums. Let the design shine through and make us support your block out maps on the VIP Alpha Test Servers like we do with Camden.
Most importantly, don’t think why things are going to fail, think why they’re going to succeed.[/QUOTE]
Very motivating post. I think it’s time to draw 
Hundopercent
(Hundopercent)
#57
We’re still only about 60%-70% through feature implementation in a lot of cases, with a small team, this is why balance changes and map changes sometimes seem slow.
As I stated we’ve not even begun to start looking at 5v5 and 6v6 balance to the extent we expect to because of this, and when we do get around to doing that sort of testing we’ll have considerably more clans testing than we do right now.
I appreciate you guys have been playing in competition for a long time, but you don’t have a monopoly on that
We have a lot of guys here who used to play in clans (personally I’ve been competing for around 15 years, including in top clans for four different FPS games) and we appreciate what a huge effort it takes to make a good comp FPS game, just as we understand what needs to happen to ensure a strong community.
We’ve not always been able to pursue that goal in the way we’d like though, but with DB’s Closed Alpha we’re getting the chance to do that, you just have to understand that this early in development balance wont change as quickly as it will in the last few months before release.
[QUOTE=MrEd;430981]DB is not like other games on the market; it’s not aiming to be a fixed point product that releases to end users in a final state with a fixed content set or locked design elements. It’s games as a service where the game is shaped by the requirements of its community with the goal of long term engagement.
No longer are the gamers just critics and consumers, everyone’s a designer now and that requires a massive change in the way both the developers and the gamers think about the game.
As a developer I would not ask the question, “why is this going to fail?” What I would ask is:
- “What do I want to achieve?”
- “How close does the current implementation get to achieving the intended results?”
- “What’s the best thing I can do next to get towards the final goal?”
So as a member of the DB Closed Alpha community you have the power to change things. If the maps are your biggest concern then don’t wait for us to make new maps, get together with some other members of the community, get Sketchup or the UDK or just pen and paper and start sketching down your own map designs and then post them back up here to the Closed Alpha forums. Let the design shine through and make us support your block out maps on the VIP Alpha Test Servers like we do with Camden.
Most importantly, don’t think why things are going to fail, think why they’re going to succeed.[/QUOTE]
I appreciate the responses and I wasn’t trying to disrespect SD in anyway. I just wasn’t able to formulate a post to get my (serious) point across without being straight forward.
I’ll see if I can get some of the guys to draft up ideas for some doc run maps. I think that would be a breath of fresh air for some of the old rtcw vets. It would also look good to the community if you published a map made by the alpha players.
Anti
(Anti)
#59
I’d definitely suggest that a more immediate impact might come from suggesting improvements on the current maps, rather than coming up with entirely new ones. I think with the maps we’re still trying to establish what design rules, spaces and map flow work best for our game play.
For me right now Camden does it best, and it’s more indicative of where I hope our future maps will go in terms of design. The difficulty we have with the other three maps is trying to find ways to retroactively improve them inline with the sort of play that Camden creates, any suggestions you might have along that front would be very helpful. For example, which areas could do with improving most and how?