My personal opinion about how to fix Shotguns.

(Tanker_Ray) #1

Howdy people, THUNDA here.

While preparing the Crafting system event,

First of all, this is my very short thought about the overall weapon balance in DB.

I think most of them are quite in a right places(Especially SMGs. Really, there is nothing to fix.).

Except burst rifles are STILL quite strong, Machine guns having heaviest weight among all weapons but lacks firepower compared to Dreiss and burst rifles, MOA’s insane RoF that was accumulated along with Felix got unnecessary buffs before, Grandeur has no major range benefit compared to other snipers, Shotguns making most of us quite mad but this thing isn’t useful at Ranked, etc.

So let’s talk about the last one, Shot guns.

I used all three of them recently with my ex account that only plays medic, tasted how good it was with also various kinds of mercs because using Remburg with Aura and Proxy is complete different world.

To be honest, shotguns are still pretty weak at small sized 5 vs 5 matches.

Only balance problem that I can pick is, Hollunds 880’s RoF is same as the Ahnuld-12, which is quite insane.

I mean, doesn’t 880 has to sit right in between Remburg and Ahnuld? Shooting 88 dmg with 95 RPM. My goodness.

However, I can point out these are the exact reason why I think people complain about shotguns, not only 880.

[b]

  • Their single shot damage is alright after the insane pellet’s min dmg 5 was properly nerfed to 1. BUT, their RoF is way too fast compared to its droughting mag size.

  • Jumpshot spread increase was nerfed to 2.5 from 2 before, but shotguns were exception of spread nerfs. Ahnuld has the best spread among all shotguns, but that doesn’t mean it is superior than Remburg. They are still able to jumpshot, and also the only gun that can jumpshot.

  • Shotgun can not properly reload-cancel. But it has the smallest mag size of all time. This is limiting Shotgun’s firepower consistency.
    [/b]

As I’m Thunder main, I can always complain about shotguns all the time since shotguns are meant to counter big guys like me. (Out of the topic, but that moment and Proxy has 2 HP left by taking 8 rounds of MK.46, and two shots by Remburg killind me… UH!!)

But I also know shotguns are way too limited unlike Vassili’s MOA is able to shoot close range and kill the guys with MP400. Thus about the second part, I actually agree about leaving shotgun’s jumpshot ability.

Instead, based on First and Third reason,

I insist that shotguns need one more mag size (+ 1 mag buffs), able to reload cancel properly(By sprinting forward which everyone in DB uses.), and lower the RoF.

Shotgun’s kills/min is way too low compared to other normal rifles, and I can clearly say smallest mag size + reload cancel problem these two are the main reason why.

Remburg’s 90RPM, 880’s 95 RPM is way too fast for pump-action shotguns too.

(But leave Ahnuld’s RoF to make it longest range/fastest shooting but weak shotgun.)

Expanding shotgun’s capacity and lowering the RoF will make it act more like real shotguns.

6 rounds for Remburg, 7 rounds for 880, 8 rounds for Ahnuld.

and 880 having 90 RPM, Remburg with 80~ ish RoF.

What do you guys think about my idea?

If you disagree, please leave the reason why.

(Someordinaryguy) #2

@THUNDA Coming from Battlefield, my biggest problem with shotguns is how easy they are to use, able to dump the whole mag and reload way too fast imho+too much range. I’m fine with them doing insane dps up close, but they should have longer pump time imho and reload slower (especially Hollunds) So imho:

-increase their reload times (from biggest to smallest increase) Hollunds->Remburg->Anhuld

-adjust Remburg ROF to be faster than Hollunds but slower than Anhuld

-decrease their range potential but make pellets spread NOT RANDOM (at least for 1st or 2 shots)

Discuss

(Tanker_Ray) #3

[quote=“Someordinaryguy;198834”]@THUNDA Coming from Battlefield, my biggest problem with shotguns is how easy they are to use, able to dump the whole mag and reload way too fast imho+too much range. I’m fine with them doing insane dps up close, but they should have longer pump time imho and reload slower (especially Hollunds) So imho:

-increase their reload times (from biggest to smallest increase) Hollunds->Remburg->Anhuld

-adjust Remburg ROF to be faster than Hollunds but slower than Anhuld

-decrease their range potential but make pellets spread NOT RANDOM (at least for 1st or 2 shots)

Discuss[/quote]

They are one of the slowest reloading gun in this game without Drilled.

I think you are confused between Remburg and Hollunds 880.

Remburg is one that shoots the strongest shell (8 x 12 =96) with only 5 rounds in the mag.

880’s shell is 8 x 11 pellets = 88 damage, with 6 rounds.

So Ahnuld already has the slowest reload speed when you have to load all 7 shells.

It does take 2.9 sec for whole reload, and continues

880(6 rounds, 2.5sec)>Remburg(5 rounds, 2.2 sec).

[b]Also, their pellets never spreads randomly.

It is fixed Star-Shaped spread.
[/b]

DB’s shotgun needs a lead-shot, not like easy aim-tracking for other fully automatic guns.

So I… really don’t agree with the part it is really easy to use, or you can dump the whole mag to someone.

(JJMAJR) #4

I think that shotguns are supposed to be the low-tier primary in this game. Most of the shotguns are balanced compared to one another, each dealing similar amounts of damage to enemies at medium range. At long range of course using a pistol would be much more viable.

I think that there are several ways a shotgun could distinguish itself from another.

DPS at point blank vs objectives
RoF
Range/Spread/Accuracy
Mobility
Method of reloading/reload speed

Unfortunately the low damage dropoff shotgun is incredibly low tier because that its base DPS is only slightly better than the Blishlock/Hochfir. Both weapons have dramatically higher range than that shotgun. That is the absolute best shotgun in the game however, and even it gets better augments than the Blishlock could.

So, they are low tier weapons.

(watsyurdeal) #5

Honestly a tighter spread, and slightly higher rates of fire would help out a lot. I’d be willing to lose damage for all of that.

(Tanker_Ray) #6

@JJMAJR

Idea of making shotguns secondary sounds sweet, but I also think shotguns are meant to limit your combat range for overall balance.

Proxy with MP and Rhino/Fletcher with somethingelse…

I can agree with Aura but hmm.

Actually, shotgun’s paper DPS is highest in this game.

Hollunds 880 has 139 DPS as its RoF is 95 RPM, dmg is 88.

Remburg-7 has even horrible DPS 144. 96 dmg + 90RPM.

Well Ahnuld-12 has 110 DPS which is very low, but other two is still damn high theoratically.

90RPM, 95RPM is super hella fast for pump-action shotguns.

And shotgun’s spread really doesn’t matter that much since Proxy and Aura always add Jump shots.

If we lower the dmg and increase RoF further, there would be no difference between automatic shotguns.(IF they come out.)

(watsyurdeal) #7

[quote=“THUNDA;199182”]
90RPM, 95RPM is super hella fast for pump-action shotguns.

And shotgun’s spread really doesn’t matter that much since Proxy and Aura always add Jump shots.

If we lower the dmg and increase RoF further, there would be no difference between automatic shotguns.(IF they come out.)[/quote]

(JJMAJR) #8

There was no point in my post where I said any such thing.

I would like to have a FS with two primaries per loadout, though. Like a long-range primary and an SMG/Shotgun secondary.

(hoyes) #9

I want the shotguns to have more range, either through decreased pellet spread or actually buffing their damage over range, but then nerf their ROF or damage so people will actually have to place their shots more effectively(i prefer nerfing ROF by the way) if they want to make the most of their weapon, which isn’t really made a point of with shotguns in this game due to their high ROF. People just spam shots down range without any precise aiming which is alarmingly effective and I think should be gone.Shotguns will be low-skill weapons no more, and due to the increased range, will be more competitive with others.

(watsyurdeal) #10

If we’re going to have a slower rate of fire for shotguns, that’s fine, but the damage and spread needs to be there.

Having a larger spread makes the damage difference practically non existent, since each pellet that misses subtracts for how much damage you’ll actually put out.

So, if we say, had something like the Ahnuld’s spray or close to it, I’d happily accept a large rof nerf, but otherwise you might as well give me the Katana instead.

(Tanker_Ray) #11

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;199280”]If we’re going to have a slower rate of fire for shotguns, that’s fine, but the damage and spread needs to be there.

Having a larger spread makes the damage difference practically non existent, since each pellet that misses subtracts for how much damage you’ll actually put out.

So, if we say, had something like the Ahnuld’s spray or close to it, I’d happily accept a large rof nerf, but otherwise you might as well give me the Katana instead.[/quote]

If we’re going to have a slower rate of fire for shotguns, that’s fine, but the damage and spread needs to be there.

Welp, this was pretty much what I said. Said none about spread nerfs, since I said Jumpshot is one of their huge advantage, and I don’t want to touch that part.

They don’t need to taste huge RoF nerf, but what I want from them is more like…

+1 rounds for all shotguns with slight RoF nerf.

‘Constantly long firepower’ I would say. They are extremely strong and deadly close range,

but just like kills/min of it tells us, shotguns are pretty bad fighting multiple enemies at one time.

mag size is too small, and can’t even properly reload cancel.

If they fix this, may be shotguns will be able to do the same thing like T65 Stoker.

Drilled + Reload cancel, pouring all your firepowers at long time battle.

(Grave_Knight) #12

Would like to see the Ahnuhld be changed from pellet shot to single slug…

(BananaSlug) #13

I like how in almost every game, guy that is wielding shotgun is also a magician, that can get infinite amounts of bullets from his sleeve