My opinion on phantom

(HadronZodiac) #1

_**FIRST, lemme make certain things known

A - Im not calling him OP (cuz he really isnt)
B - Im not calling him UP (he is a tiny tiny bit but not enough for you to flip 13 tables)
C - Actually read everything i type, not just read 3 words and start $hitting bricks
D - Actually write a structured response, maybe for the first time in dirty bomb forum history an opinion won’t turn into a bash party ;o**_

His pros -
He can mostly sneak into an enemy chokepoint or group and cause havoc (assuming they are relying on deployables), and if you have the katana maybe even get a kill. If the enemy team is more spread out he can easily pick them off, and if the enemy team has 1 or more fletchers, get ready for the FRESH emp exp.

His cons -

No real battle abilities, just something to get him to places easier. The main reason im not a fan of him is just because he can get to where he wants to go overall safely, what will he do then? He has emped the enemy territory and now what? Other than multiple people freaking out and shooting and blowing stuff up, you uncloak and try to get a kill. Of course if theres more than 1 person they will start blowing you up and shooting u to hell, all he can do hes slice slice shoot shoot.

How I think small improvements could help him out

  • When killed while cloaked, emp is let out (if its charged up)
  • Gain a small shield that can in take damage by a small percentage after uncloaking, allowing him to actually disrupt the enemy instead of getting shot at and letting them get back to their thing
  • Maybe slightly reduce cloak visibility more, the whole point is to be overall be unseen (not by 100% of course), but instead to the slightly trained eye its SO easy to see and shoot him
  • Maybe slightly increase emp range so he can emp deployables without being all up in the enemy team’s grilll (tbh idk about this one that much but eh)
  • Give him good loadouts (i got a ranked s4 for him and it isn’t even that good) ;/
(Wulie) #2

…I don’t think there is a need for a buff. More for a slight nerf.

My recommendations:

  • take away Katana and Cricket Bat of his loadouts- with his opportunity to come in melee range, he should not be rewarded with a melee kill
    -let him have a slight delay while uncloaking (aprox 2 seconds)
    -increase the range of his emp a few units- I think disabling enemy deployables is a good and unique role for him, so he should get his bonuses there.
(kopyright) #3

One of the best things you can do with Phantom is sneak around the defenses on Underground and do a sneaky plant, thereby drawing out the lines of the defenders even more. Only works while they are still defending around the elevator, though.

(Ptiloui) #4

@HadronZodiac said:
… all he can do hes slice slice shoot shoot.

“I disappear. I kill people. I’m like a shark. On land. With a gun.”

His quote says it all about him : you come from nowhere, you kill valuable target, you disappear. You’re the hidden menace that can pick one (or more) of them at any moment. Bring fear in their heart :wink: . If you can synchronize with your team, your sole action of disrupting their back lines (killing enemy medics, disabling health station/shield/turrets) should be enough for your crew to make a successful push.

@HadronZodiac said:
1- When killed while cloaked, emp is let out (if its charged up)
2- Gain a small shield that can in take damage by a small percentage after uncloaking, allowing him to actually disrupt the enemy instead of getting shot at and letting them get back to their thing
3- Maybe slightly reduce cloak visibility more, the whole point is to be overall be unseen (not by 100% of course), but instead to the slightly trained eye its SO easy to see and shoot him
4- Maybe slightly increase emp range so he can emp deployables without being all up in the enemy team’s grilll (tbh idk about this one that much but eh)
5- Give him good loadouts (i got a ranked s4 for him and it isn’t even that good) ;/

1- Definitively yes. Honestly, I even thought this was already the case, because it works that way with other merc’s abilities (Phoenix heal, Guardian’s pulse, “cooked” nades/stickies/molotov/airstrike, …)
2- No. You don’t need a shield when you’re already flanking and having the first shots.
3- Hu… no. He’s already visible enough. What the point of the refractive armor if anyone can see you clearer ? You’d be better off flanking with another merc if you do so.
4- His radius he’s already large enough, not sure he really needs a larger one. You’re supposed to get close to the enemy when getting out of cloak. Hunter is your guy if you want a distant emp.
5- I’m curious which loadout you got because every one are actually good for me. Some are clearly superior, but there aren’t bad loadout. The only one I find a bit underwhelming is the CR63, even though the Untrackable perk could be of good use on him, and don’t underestimate the chopper+cricket bat combo ;).

(kopyright) #5

@Ptiloui said:
5- I’m curious which loadout you got because every one are actually good for me.

Shotgun Phantom! <3

(HadronZodiac) #6

@Wulie said:
…I don’t think there is a need for a buff. More for a slight nerf.

My recommendations:

  • take away Katana and Cricket Bat of his loadouts- with his opportunity to come in melee range, he should not be rewarded with a melee kill
    -let him have a slight delay while uncloaking (aprox 2 seconds)
    -increase the range of his emp a few units- I think disabling enemy deployables is a good and unique role for him, so he should get his bonuses there.

I dont agree, as how else would he deal out effective damage? Ok so he has emp-ed a health station, now he either must RUN or get killed without doing ANY damage, he is supposed to get kills, removing good melees is not the way to go.

Plus he has the stilleto, which is a HORRIBLE melee to put on his loadouts, replace it with kukri devs D:

(HadronZodiac) #7

@Ptiloui said:

@HadronZodiac said:
… all he can do hes slice slice shoot shoot.

“I disappear. I kill people. I’m like a shark. On land. With a gun.”

His quote says it all about him : you come from nowhere, you kill valuable target, you disappear. You’re the hidden menace that can pick one (or more) of them at any moment. Bring fear in their heart :wink: . If you can synchronize with your team, your sole action of disrupting their back lines (killing enemy medics, disabling health station/shield/turrets) should be enough for your crew to make a successful push.

@HadronZodiac said:
1- When killed while cloaked, emp is let out (if its charged up)
2- Gain a small shield that can in take damage by a small percentage after uncloaking, allowing him to actually disrupt the enemy instead of getting shot at and letting them get back to their thing
3- Maybe slightly reduce cloak visibility more, the whole point is to be overall be unseen (not by 100% of course), but instead to the slightly trained eye its SO easy to see and shoot him
4- Maybe slightly increase emp range so he can emp deployables without being all up in the enemy team’s grilll (tbh idk about this one that much but eh)
5- Give him good loadouts (i got a ranked s4 for him and it isn’t even that good) ;/

1- Definitively yes. Honestly, I even thought this was already the case, because it works that way with other merc’s abilities (Phoenix heal, Guardian’s pulse, “cooked” nades/stickies/molotov/airstrike, …)
2- No. You don’t need a shield when you’re already flanking and having the first shots.
3- Hu… no. He’s already visible enough. What the point of the refractive armor if anyone can see you clearer ? You’d be better off flanking with another merc if you do so.
4- His radius he’s already large enough, not sure he really needs a larger one. You’re supposed to get close to the enemy when getting out of cloak. Hunter is your guy if you want a distant emp.
5- I’m curious which loadout you got because every one are actually good for me. Some are clearly superior, but there aren’t bad loadout. The only one I find a bit underwhelming is the CR63, even though the Untrackable perk could be of good use on him, and don’t underestimate the chopper+cricket bat combo ;).

Some i see your point on tbh, but you need to basically get all headshots with your smg or else you wont be getting a single kill before u need to run or get decimated.

Also, for number 3, i think you understood me wrong, i meant increase cloak, aka decrease his visibility more

4 - Tbh that one wasnt THAT needed, just thought that could maybe happen tbh

5 - C53 for ranked, which isnt that bad of a card, more of a defensive than offensive card though, the bat is mehh ;/, kek10 im fine with, enigma doesnt really feel that useful, and bomb squad is neutral for me. ;/

2 - Tbh i dont really agree, cuz as said, just cuz your close and did 22 damage before they notice you, people typically are close together so ;/, plus if the enemy has shotguns your basically fucked.

(Rokon2) #8

Phantom is good as a saboteur class. Flank around invisible, and then take out Medics/Snipers/Deployables, completing several jobs:

  • Giving your team a numbers advantage
  • Eliminating key targets
  • Disabling any kind of sustain in the form of ammunition/health
  • Allowing your team a window of opportunity to push

I think Phantom is powerful. Frustrating, but powerful, and not overpowered currently.

(HadronZodiac) #9

@Rokon2 said:
Phantom is good as a saboteur class. Flank around invisible, and then take out Medics/Snipers/Deployables, completing several jobs:

  • Giving your team a numbers advantage
  • Eliminating key targets
  • Disabling any kind of sustain in the form of ammunition/health
  • Allowing your team a window of opportunity to push

I think Phantom is powerful. Frustrating, but powerful, and not overpowered currently.

Multiple of those points i can agree with, but the main problem is at max you can only take out one, and sometimes a key target has HIGH hp, and so taking him out would be hard af.

(ThunderZsolt) #10

@Wulie said:
…I don’t think there is a need for a buff. More for a slight nerf.

My recommendations:

  • take away Katana and Cricket Bat of his loadouts- with his opportunity to come in melee range, he should not be rewarded with a melee kill
    -let him have a slight delay while uncloaking (aprox 2 seconds)
    -increase the range of his emp a few units- I think disabling enemy deployables is a good and unique role for him, so he should get his bonuses there.

slight delay…
Do you think 2 seconds is a slight delay?
Most primary weapons have around 120 DPS which means they can kill Phantom in a second. Or if you can aim for his head, 0,5 seconds.

Which means he can get killed 4 times during that slight delay.
Seriously, do people think about what they are posting?

(Ptiloui) #11

I indeed read your point 3 wrong. I too think he should be more invisible or his visibility fixed so having potato graphic doesn’t give you advantage.

@HadronZodiac said:
Multiple of those points i can agree with, but the main problem is at max you can only take out one, and sometimes a key target has HIGH hp, and so taking him out would be hard af.

How many is high HP for you ? Because as Phantom, the only mercs that have more hp than you are Fragger, Thunder and Rhino. And, once again, you have the position advantage, landing the first shots should guarantee you to kill (and finish) at least one enemy each time.

You’re not supposed to do everything on your own. In fact, i think Phantom should be played as shoot and run. It’s the “shark” part of his quote : you come out of nowhere, kill one, then disappear. By doing so, you’ll often draw attention from one or two more enemies, giving a greater number advantage to your teammates.

(HadronZodiac) #12

@Ptiloui said:
I indeed read your point 3 wrong. I too think he should be more invisible or his visibility fixed so having potato graphic doesn’t give you advantage.

@HadronZodiac said:
Multiple of those points i can agree with, but the main problem is at max you can only take out one, and sometimes a key target has HIGH hp, and so taking him out would be hard af.

How many is high HP for you ? Because as Phantom, the only mercs that have more hp than you are Fragger, Thunder and Rhino. And, once again, you have the position advantage, landing the first shots should guarantee you to kill (and finish) at least one enemy each time.

You’re not supposed to do everything on your own. In fact, i think Phantom should be played as shoot and run. It’s the “shark” part of his quote : you come out of nowhere, kill one, then disappear. By doing so, you’ll often draw attention from one or two more enemies, giving a greater number advantage to your teammates.

Landing your entire clip into a merc with 120 also is a bitch, as people sense damage quickly and a marker shows where it comes from, such as a javelin can wreck your tiny recon ass the second she senses you. Yes the position advantage allows you to deal 33 damage first, but the thing is you cant really land enough damage before they start shooting, and plus the second 1 merc takes damage, basically the whole team knows, and now your running from a team ;p

(Rokon2) #13

@HadronZodiac said:

@Rokon2 said:
Phantom is good as a saboteur class. Flank around invisible, and then take out Medics/Snipers/Deployables, completing several jobs:

  • Giving your team a numbers advantage
  • Eliminating key targets
  • Disabling any kind of sustain in the form of ammunition/health
  • Allowing your team a window of opportunity to push

I think Phantom is powerful. Frustrating, but powerful, and not overpowered currently.

Multiple of those points i can agree with, but the main problem is at max you can only take out one, and sometimes a key target has HIGH hp, and so taking him out would be hard af.

I can only speak for myself, but as Phantom I try not to use the invisibility to close in on targets. Instead I just go around and pick from afar. That puts the enemy team at a disadvantage because they’re being hit from two sides. Invisibility is nice to lose a pursuer though.