what advantage? those picmip settings + the fastsky thingy can all be easily configured in the options menu. so they’re available to anyone, not just those who can figure out cvars and console tweaking. way better than using some cheap program like rivatuner no?
J
did i say anything about picmip and fastsky alone? i said “that’s the advantage of consoles: no dirty tricks with graphics tweakings”. ever heard of atmosphericeffects, wolfparticles, bloodFlash, bloodDamageBlend n such? imo all should get distracted by the implemented stuff or none. if eg smoke can be tweaked away, then there is no use for smoke in an MP game, so why implement it in the first place?
You’re missing Joe999’s point but anyway:
Best possible settings from the menu:
Worst possible settings from the menu:
And then, “tweaked”:
But Joe’s point wasn’t this, consoles don’t even have config menus so everyone is in a level playing field. Anyone that “tweaks” and complains PC gaming is going down the drain is an hypocrite.
Now devs could help the situation. They could lock every CVar that can’t be changed directly from the menu. From the first two settings above it’s clear the lowest possible menu setting does not give a statisticaly significant advantage. The second thing they could do is be reasonable with minimum requirements for the game; if your min spec’s quality has an advantage over the “mainstream” system then it’s time to raise the min spec.
What good is there in us seeing all these excellent ETQW screenshots if half will reduce quality to gain an advantage while the other half is forced to also lower theirs to remain competitive? Heck, why not save SD’s art department some trouble and tell them to make really crappy and high contrast textures; perhaps they’ll release the game sooner.
It boggles my mind that people with computers that can handle Quake 4 at High Quality playing it like crap, almost vertex lighting crap. Hey, here’s an idea, play Quake 3 instead.
You like to have good graphics on thats up to you, others dont like to so they turn them down, i dont see why just because you dont like them and you think it gives an advantage they should be locked, it will always be the way there’ll be noobs and people who are better and know more about that game, and beisdes the fact that if ever single setting was in the menu options (alot are) they still wouldnt change them so its ‘there’ own fault tbh.
Now devs could help the situation. They could lock every CVar that can’t be changed directly from the menu.
PunkBuster offers an alternate solution. The Server Admin can restrict how much cvars can be changed. He could restrict values so they match the available menu options.
You’re really making it out as if people who tweak their configs automatically have some sort of giant advantage over others. Quite frankly, all that’s changed really is lowering of detail and brightening of surroundings (assuming it’s on a server that enforces TWL cvar limitations via PB). Config tweaks do NOT give you better shooting ability, and that’s ultimately what matters. I know people who play the stock version of ET and kick the crap out of people with tweaked cvars.
Seriously dude, within reasonable limits set by servers, you cannot make branches of trees disappear, you cannot see through smoke, you cannot make terrain elements disappear, etc. You can, however, remove headbob while walking (which is irritating and unnecessary), turn off drawing the gun (which can be very distracting), and change contrast ratios. We make it easier for us to see things, so what?
You can do it too - most of the settings are availible in in-game menus, and the things that aren’t really are quite easy to learn. It’s your prerogative not to, and mine to do so.
Also, one last thing - you can change contrast etc. and still keep the detail levels up, which defeats your argument of “why not save SD’s art department…” Regardless, however, most people don’t play video games strictly for graphics - it’s all about gameplay and fun imo…and if I can increase the latter two at the expense of the former, I’m all for it, and no, that doesn’t mean I should go play Pong (see gameplay). You can have your pretty graphics, and I’ll have my semi-prettty graphics if it increases my fun-factor.
Get off our nuts :blah:
Mordenkainen: your comparison pics are a bit deceptive. On most systems, you can get as bright as the last shot just from the menu. However, if you use hardware gamma (the default on cards that support it) it doesn’t show up in the screenshot.
All completely OT to the amazing allied hover tank, of course. :moo:
Oh for fuck sake, at least admit you tweak the game for better visuals. I sure do it because of that, but as Joe999 said, it’s really not about you keep it your way and I keep it my way. If you can tweak a game, you HAVE to do it to stay competitive. If that is altering gamma or changing picmip level is not the point. Fortunately, this is not as big a problem in ET as it was when rtcw where released, that game you could tweak the hell out of and it didn’t have pb on release. Nowdays most games seems to have more balanced tweaking abilities (picmip went up to 15 and you could use vertex lightning in rtcw) and many of them include pb which is a good thing.
Reducing image quality improves gameplay and fun for you? You should tell Carmack that and save him the trouble of coming up with improved renderers all the time. You’d rather play a defaced game rather than the way it was meant to be played? Seriously, are you for real?
You talk about reasonable limits set by the server. Why not the developer who is foremost the one that knows what the game should look like? There’s nothing stopping you from using the SDK to unlock the cvars you want (that’s like a 2 min job) and playing that mod on your own server and that means ETmain is free of that.
But like I said, completely missing Joe’s point.
Seriously dude, within reasonable limits set by servers, you cannot make branches of trees disappear, you cannot see through smoke, you cannot make terrain elements disappear, etc. You can, however, remove headbob while walking (which is irritating and unnecessary), turn off drawing the gun (which can be very distracting), and change contrast ratios. We make it easier for us to see things, so what?
I know your talking about ET, but in DoD you can lower your graphics enough so there arent bushes and there is no smoke. So yeah, that gives you a big advantage over people with those things turned on.
You’re twisting my words. I didn’t say that reducing image quality necessarily improves gameplay/fun…the whole IF thing, you know? IF the game plays a little better and I enjoy it a little more at the expense of some graphic effects, so be it. Again, quit acting like tweakers reduce the game to lines and stick people - the graphics are STILL THERE, just in somewhat less detail. If I can eliminate what I feel are some unnecessary effects for a few more fps/better playability, again, you better believe I will.
The developers can and will set out THEIR limits (ie, in ET raising picmip above 3 has no additional effect [I think it’s 3 anyway…might be 5]), and the servers still more on top of it. I don’t see your point. No one is tainting your game, and especially not to the extent you would lead one to believe.
Never played DoD, but I imagine QW is going to be more similar to ET than it…and if you can’t remove bushes, smoke, etc. in ET, there’s no reason to think we’ll be able to in QW.
For a second here, I thought it was a GAME that you guys were arguing about…
:: hears a murmur ::
WHAT ?!? …they are arguing about a game ?
o.O
Never played DoD, but I imagine QW is going to be more similar to ET than it…and if you can’t remove bushes, smoke, etc. in ET, there’s no reason to think we’ll be able to in QW.
I know, I’m not saying QW will be like DoD. I’m just saying it’s really annoying how in some games tweakers can have a major advantage over people who want to see all the eye candy of the game.
erm … who said anything about “giant” advantage? it isn’t giant, but there is an advantage and that’s what matters. besides, don’t you think tweaking configs so that you see things better improves the shooting ability? so there’s a slight conflict in your arguments.
no i can’t, i HAVE to unless i want to play as fragfood.
first: who is “our”? and second: erm … tone? :eek:
people turn down graphics only because they don’t like them? lol & rofl :nag:
really, i don’t care about whether graphics are good or bad, all i care about is that there are the same conditions for every player. so why is there so much eye candy in an MP only game if people can tweak them away? only for the commercials? SD tries to balance the game team-wise, imo it is also important to balance it in a way that it remains fair config-wise, dunno if they do that for QW, i hope so. i’ve read in an interview that shadows are important in QW and you can eg hide in them. maybe now it’s different, so that there’s an advantage if you have shadows enabled? if you can tweak that away as well imo it shouldn’t be mentioned as a “plus” of the game. we’ll see with what the final game will show up 
The ability to get headshots is what matters in ET, period. Tweaking gives you absolutely ZERO more potential for hitting headshots. That’s what I mean by shooting ability. Yeah, if I can see you coming first via brighter uniform or something that’s certainly an advantage, but ultimately what it boils down to is headshots. But anyway, if I don’t have a good video card or high resolution like many gamers do (I play on a craptop), tweaking to make things brighter helps me get to their level; while they can see me coming from far away strictly by grace of good hardware, I can see them coming by turning up the gamma a little bit, changing intensity, whatever. Again, cover isn’t removed, so anything you can see at first glance I can see at first glance - it’s simply a matter of brightness, graininess, or what have you.
If it were unfair, I don’t believe SD would have implemented the /exec command in the console in the first place. They added that support in for serious people who want to more customize their game.
You don’t HAVE to tweak; like I said, I know people playing stock ET with good computers that are better than me by a good amount. If tweaking were an advantage worth making a stink out of, I’d probably beat them every time.
Oh the novels I’ve written on this subject on other forums. Oh the wasted e-breath. You can’t get through to a scrub. They invent arbitrary rules in their own minds, then expect everyone else to abide by them. I’m sorry, but no. Some cvars have the C flag, others do not. Those others are what constitute ET. I play ET.
If Joe999 didn’t have so many posts, I’d swear he was LilleBror. But he’s a bit too coherent. Maybe they’re friends…
just a question: did i say anything to offend you? or what’s the reason behind your attitude? if you can’t come up with reasonable arguments how about simply keeping your opinion about me for yourself?
I would say there’s a difference between game play and game tweaks. Saying “I wont use a panzerfaust because it’s cheap” / “lame panzer whore” would define a scrub. Using tweaks is more of a gray area since they’re originally there for allowing people with lower spec machines to play and is really not part of the game play mechanics.
Lots of people play games for the immersion AND the game play and dislikes having a disadvantage for it. I can understand this from rtcw, it looked really nice with everything enabled, but the disadvantage using it was just too great. Most of the tweaks you can do in ET has more of a placebo effect than anything else though, since you can’t alter it so much and the worst tweaks are severly limited by PB. With very few tweaks you can still maintain a relatively good look and still increase the visibility enough to stay competitive.
Anyway, if the game allows you to use a tweak you dislike, blame the developers for allowing it, not the players for using it.
