My convert map Den of Lions: Lair to ET

[kevinski]

I don’t exactly understand what you mean here. Aren’t detail brushes a GOOD thing to use?

2. Poor old Marko’s maps run fast cos they have bugger all detail / texture usage in 'em Might go track his tutorials down for a bit of a laugh

[kevinski]

When I try putting /cg_draw2d 0 or r_showtris 2 into the console, it tells me that they’re cheat protected. How do I get around this? I was the one hosting the game (non-dedicated), so shouldn’t I have full access to these commands? :???:

[RivrStyx]

While not a huge fan of his maps themselves

You had to add that in there and ruin the whole thing you were saying…huh? :disgust: : Thats just Gerbil though…heh.

Kev… start the map with devmap.
/devmap <mapname>
Then do those commands

[kevinski]

Thanks for the info, RivrStyx. I guess I overlooked that part.

As for G0-Gerbil’s comment, it’s good to see that I’m not the only one that isn’t into RivrStyx’s maps. Honestly, it has nothing to do with the appearance of functionality of all of them. In fact, I was VERY close to liking Den of Lions, then it got REALLY confusing underground. At least, I’m pretty sure I’m thinking of the right map…

I remember RivrStyx saying a LONG time ago that he designs maps for people with a sense of direction. Too true. I think RivrStyx’s maps require a bit too much thought for those that’re looking for mindless fun, though. Honestly, maps like mp_depot are a nightmare for me.

[kevinski]

Okay, basically the same screens as before, but with /r_showtris 2 in the console. The first shows my FPS at 90.

The next pic occurs after having walked forward a few steps, so I’m standing ALMOST in the first doorway. Looks like its the trees.

The final one is a few more steps forward. More trees?

Now, I’m not sure how you did the rain, so maybe that’s causing part of the problem, too. Is the rain showing up in my screens, RivrStyx, or is it even possible to tell like that? Oh, and I apologize to the 56k’ers on this thread. Sorry.

[RivrStyx]

Theres a door to the left thats showing up the outside once through that door. It wide open to the outdoors. It could be stopped somewhat by closing off the other door if i wanted. Has nothing to do with that door your facing. Anyway if your having problems with those 3 trees showing and the terrain… thats a drag…guess you can’t even go outside because those walls aren’t adding much. I got a feeling the shaders used outside are killing your card.

Oh and thx to both of you. Seems to have turned into i hate Styxs maps thread when all i came in here for was to see why DOL:lair was being converted without asking.

As for G0-Gerbil’s comment, it’s good to see that I’m not the only one that isn’t into RivrStyx’s maps.

I don’t get this statement…why is it good to see someone else isn’t into my maps… does that make you happy?
Kev… Its ok you 2 don’t like my work (not everyone will)… now if it was like Menzel or turbo and pointy or a large majority of players… it might bother me. Its your way of presenting your dislike …like calling someones work a piece of crap…etc … when you’ve done nothing yourself.

Callfire was confusing… Res and DOL isn’t that i’m aware of anyone saying. You really didn’t get lost in the underground area in DOL did you? First i heard someone got lost there.

[kevinski]

I didn’t say mp_resurrection was confusing; I said it was straight-forward. As for Den of Lions, yes, I said I’d gotten really confused in the underground section. Nothing serious. Now, before I go any further, I’d like to reference a little quote from your last post.

Its your way of presenting your dislike …like calling someones work a piece of crap…etc … when you’ve done nothing yourself.

What you’re saying is that my opinion doesn’t matter, since I haven’t released a map. What about Det Pak? Does he have any right to target me when he simply releases a bunch of sound packs, not maps? In fact, if your logic stands, he should have no right to comment on maps, nor should he bitch about my negative comments. While we’re on the subject of Det Pak, how LEGAL was it to take the sounds from RtCW and put them into a sound pack for ET? Sure, he added some new sounds, but using those RtCW sounds isn’t at all legal, unless he had permission from id.

One more thing for you to think about: At least I leave somewhat intelligent comments. And if you seek some sort of elaboration, I provide it. Most of the people on this forum leave comments like:

0m9!!! 7hi5 5uck5!!1!!one!

teh grafic sux!!!

At least I use pretty proper English and give a bit of info as to what’s bugging me. I honestly hope someone realizes that I’m not some idiot that’s impressed by some graphical eye candy in a map, or the references to the Evil Dead series.

Sadly, even when I cease to insult your work and actually try to give you information on what you might want to tweak, you continue to insult me. When I finally release a map, I’m sure the RivrStyx fan club is gonna slam the Hell out of it. Yes, it bugs me that a lot of people are gonna be assholes towards me because I don’t like some of your maps, but I’m not gonna dwell on it. So, stop using the little ‘make a map’ comeback.

[kevinski]

I was merely expressing the fact that someone else FINALLY agrees with the fact that your maps aren’t necessarily the amazing breakthroughs they’re claimed to be. Although - on an eye candy level - some people may find mp_resurrection absolutely amazing, I can’t see its gameplay highpoints. It’s very similar to the ET maps, which I’m not a huge fan of. I remember having commented elsewhere that I’ll play ET more when some quality custom maps are released. I’m playing ET more now, since the church map and Carnage Canyon have been released.

I don’t get this statement…why is it good to see someone else isn’t into my maps… does that make you happy?

[G0-Gerbil]

Hey, we’d gone almost civil for a while there!

I suppose my comments were a bit misleading - you could argue that I’m a fan of RivrStyx’s maps because I appreciate what they offer that other custom maps don’t - to the point where I used his ‘style’ in my own map.
I’m not a fan of his maps though because when I was playing a lot of RTCW customs I too had a gf2 mx 200 (w 64 megs of ram) - the one with the shitty onboard bandwidth meaning it WAS large textures and lots of them that crippled my framerate. Combined with the fact that the servers running his maps tended to be 40+ players upwards (IE, obviously lots of people like 'em), meant that my framerates were poo. Not necessarily any poo-er than servers running say 64 player beach or (god forbid) assault, but then again, I steered clear of those servers too

I don’t HATE his maps, just never managed to get into ‘them’ (‘them’ being DOL really - the only one I saw lots), but this is true of many custom AND official maps (coughrailguncough etc).

The good thing about Styx’s maps was that I didn’t not like them because of technical deficiencies - unlike, say, Carnage Canyon. In other words, it came down to purely personal taste (and the nature of servers running his maps) as opposed to a (perceived) inability to actually map!

It IS possible to not like maps without hating them
Also, despite my apathy to his maps, I have respect for RivrStyx, so let’s not turn my posts into an assumed personal bashing!

Must admit I never did as much research into framerates as Kevinski, mainly cos I was used to putting up with crap framerates, so never really let it bother me. After all, if you start getting 10fps in the middle of a clan war on assault, what can really be worse than that?

So 1 last question - Kev - do you have a 200 or a 400? If the 200, then shrinking textures can often have a beneficial effect on framerate on larger maps - it really was the crippled child of the gf2 family

[RivrStyx]

Kev…If saying a map a piece of crap…etc… is intelligent …save it. Anyone that comments on a map in that manner … the comments are worth a grain of salt. So yes…your comments are worthless. (Also i haven’t called you any names so can it.) I never said my maps were amazing breakthroughs and if someone else did…they say that to whatever map is released at the time about different mappers. Don’t take that out of me. As far a gameplay …theres plenty that like the gameplay… thats a preference i guess.
Like i said …until you’ve sat down and made a map and worked with optimizing a map…you have no clue…just what you read somewhere so i won’t get off that. You could comment possibly intelligently on gameplay but not optimizing at this point…but i’m sure you say something like “the gameplay is a piece of crap”…lol. It was no secret Res wasn’t for the low end video card with the effects…but GF2 ultras ran fine and thats what i was aiming for. So stop attacking me and now Detpak … none of the sounds in Res are RTCW. Don’t know what he released on his own. Instead of trashing my maps and being pissed at something you read about them …try working on your own. Again …if you don’t like my maps …play ones that you do and leave me be dude.

Gerbil…thx for clearing that up… just felt like it turned into a i hate Styx maps thread…heh. I know everyone isn’t going to like a map…different tastes. I’m not getting paid for this so i do it for fun and try to make decent maps. I guess i felt a little defensive over clueless starting in on me over at RTCWfiles and now here. Now saying that i guess another “you called me a name” and “i was trying to help saying your map was a piece of crap” and “my video card can’t handle a wall and a few trees” post will follow.

[G0-Gerbil]

Even if it was a ‘I hate XXX maps’ I wouldn’t care - but the personal side is a bit pointless, cos none of us knows each other. I see enough ‘personal’ shit in-game to not want to see it in forums (unless it’s funny :p).

Thing is, he may be ‘clueless’ in your opinion but you can’t really argue with his framerate pics, the map is crap on his computer. Not that that’s ‘bad’ unless he really wants to play it, but certainly in RTCW some maps were so stupidly unoptimized (I sometimes wondered if people knew about the VIS stage of compile. Not to mention the light stage…), that I wanted to twat the person responsible - all they ever needed to do was say in the README ‘this map requires P6 5Ghz w/ 2gig graphics card’ and I’d be happy - but given how games give out completely rubbish minimum specs (half a mind to go see what min-specs are for ET ;)), it’s not suprising that people can’t be bothered - especially since most people map for their own setup.

I do wish more people would learn to map on crap setups though - the lessons I learnt in church will stand me in good stead in future, but many people don’t have that starting post - they are mapping on gf4s etc. which is NOT a good way to learn about optimising (nor is having a fast CPU, since ET maps seem to be more CPU locked than GFX card then RTCW, dunno why - not that I’d wish anyone to have to compile on a slow CPU :)).

What concerns me more here about this particular map is that if the original runs craply on slow setups, is a ‘conversion’ going to do any better? Something tells me not likely - if the mapper in question was better than RivrStyx, he’d be doing his own map, not converting. Which means, unless ol’ Styxy has some input, the outlook ain’t particularly promising from my point of view.

The whole optimisation thing does interest me though, I must admit, cos I’m boring like that - it’d be interesting to have an ‘optimisation’ competition - someone churns out a really really badly built map, deliberately totally unoptimised, then people try to make it as quick as possible without changing it visually AT ALL. Winner gets a slap round the face for being so anal

[RivrStyx]

The map being converted in this thread is Den of Lions:lair (a smaller version of the Den of Lions 64 player dual map i did for smaller servers) i assume since it said lair in title. The Den of Lion maps ran fine on any system as did Callfire. I even got compliments on the size of the map and the frame rates still being good. So we’re not talking those 2 maps …just Res. I spend as much time getting frames up as i do building the map… The outdoors weren’t going to get better in Res. with how i had to do things. I do optimize as much as possible with what i’m doing…lol

His screens did show it ran bad on his system but times change and like i said GF2 Ultra cards ran Res fine. Also my GF3 got frame rates like in my pic. GF3 cards are cheap and if he can’t afford it plenty are still playing Q2 or rtcw for that matter with plenty of maps to keep him happy. Once Doom3 is out and other games he’ll have to upgrade or not play it. I’m sure a GF2 mx has trouble with the ET maps with players on as he said…but i know its real bad… which is around what Res is now out doors. My son has a GF2 and his frames are horrible in ET. Thats what i’ll base my frames and r_speeds on… the original maps. Every game that comes out the standard goes up as it should or we’d still be playing doom1 graphics. Thats my opinion and others can map for voodoo and other low end cards. Like i said Res was the only map that low end systems had trouble on and i put alot of info in the readme…no one cared to read it.

[ziege]

One more thing for you to think about: At least I leave somewhat intelligent comments. And if you seek some sort of elaboration, I provide it. Most of the people on this forum leave comments like:

0m9!!! 7hi5 5uck5!!1!!one!

teh grafic sux!!!

Wow where did that come from? One minute it’s a small quasi-entertaining slagging match between 2-3 ppl, the next you randomly insult everyone on the board with gross generalizations! Well done :bash:

[kevinski]

Oh, now who’s trying to play innocent?

(Also i haven’t called you any names so can it.)

On the page with the announcement about mp_resurrection coming to ET on RtCWFiles, RivrStyx called me:

• stupid

• asshole loser

• dopey

On that same page, I called him:

• dick

And no, the ‘crap’ thing doesn’t count as an insult toward RivrStyx; I was referring to his map. And I said it a whopping one time. Get over it. Back to RivrStyx in a bit. I need to comment on what G0-Gerbil stated. My video card is a GeForce2 MX 400, and - as I stated before - I never have problems with FPS due to textures.

By the way, yes, I’ll admit that optimized maps are normally first on my list, but there’s one map that doesn’t run too well on my computer that I absolutely love: Fun Beach 2. Still, I get FPS that keeps the map playable. And I’ve tried Market Garden before. I swallowed my pride and adjusted my in-game settings, since I was honestly getting 1 FPS at times. Go ahead and laugh. I won’t take offense, because I was laughing at the time, too.

As for Det Pak, I wasn’t referring to the sounds in mp_resurrection. I was referring to his ET sound pack. He does SOUNDS for maps; he doesn’t make maps. Why is his opinion any more valid than mine? I mean, if someone that creates sound packs (by stealing sounds, yet to boot) can judge maps without being harassed, why shouldn’t I be able to? I specialize in Web Design, and I’m trying to branch out and make some maps for my favorite games. Thanks for the support, RivrStyx.

Regarding DOOM 3, although I was originally impressed by its graphical bliss, the Half-Life 2 footage made DOOM 3 look like ass. I’m not into the Half-Life games, though, so I can’t guarantee that I’ll bother purchasing it, as well as a capable video card to run it. I’m an optimization freak, though, so I plan to map for people with low-end setups.

[kevinski]

Sorry for that little insult to the people on this board. Unfortunately, what you’re taking offense in isn’t exactly a bogus lie. And it’s especially evident on RtCWFiles.com. Half of the people that leave comments know nothing about modeling and such. I understand the importance of optimization, and I feel that newer hardware merely makes developers a little lazier as time passes. I took 3D modeling and animation courses in school, and I know how to create low-poly models. Going from 3ds max to Radiant isn’t exactly a vacation.

In any case, I’m not an idiot. I know what quality is. There are PLENTY of projects I could create that would blow many of those already on RtCWFiles out of the water. Sadly, I’m not terribly gifted at mapping yet. I excel at other things that others could only wish for. My Web programming skills were actually highly respected throughout my time at school, and my movie trailers wowed countless others. I’m trying something I’m unfamiliar with, for the most part. Luckily, I have knowledge of the fundamentals. Sorry for trying to point out a flaw or two in your map.

[RivrStyx]

You are entertaining in a child like way and those names i called you on the OTHER forum… i stand by them. Dude fun beach gets less FPS then Res or market Garden…so whats your point here. Selective Good Frame/Bad Frame syndrome depending on who did the map. My video card stuggles on that map so i know fun beach with players on it your at a stand still. I’m in the 30 range as well as alot of others i’ve read have frame rate problems on that map. Anyway back to you.

Heres why those names i called you on the other forum fit so well.1. You started downing my map in a news thread about my map coming to ET. WTF is in your mind boy? why would you do such an assinine thing? Hardly the place so i’ll THANK YOU for that when i’m trying to promote it. If you had something to say you should have said it in the original release thread where players comment not in a promotion thread before its even out. Thats like me saying your map sucks.
Then i’m in here just trying to find out why my map was being converted without my knowledge and there you are again like a malignant
growth on my ass. What part don’t you get… Your one of the people i don’t CARE what you have to say…why … because its just you… but you keep on blowing hot air. Your way of commenting turned me off and has nothing to do with positive or negative feedback…i just don’t like you. I’m glad you found someone else as you put it that doesn’t like my maps… that was a bit strange. You been searching or something?

2. For some reason you can’t get it through your head i didn’t care about a GF2 MX with resurrection… i had that choice. You don’t like my maps anyway or that others had good things to say about them so what exactly is it to you what i did. Go burrough your head in someone elses ass and comment on thier work for awhile. That news thread was for those that DID like it. The other 2 maps i did for RTCW are fine for EVERYONE. Res is a haunted house so i did what i had to to get Lightning and rain…and yes at the cost of lowend systems. If one map i chose to make for players that can afford a GF2 ultra at least and said screw those with GF2 MX cards and lower makes me MR. unoptimizer…heh… then think what you like and harp and harp and harp on it. Did that penetrate at all this time? Probably not…why would i think it did this time

3. Then you bring someone else into your warped world of optimized low end BS when hes not here to defend himself. Just outa the clear blue sky comes Detpaks name and you dog him for …hmmm… what was the reason? I missed it i think. Because your reaching for whatever you can because your like some internet arguer since you’d get your ass kicked in real life? or because he did some sounds for me? Hes done sounds for alot of mappers… what was it you said you’ve done for the gaming community except be a thorn in its ass to those that have and wish you could somehow do something to make yourself feel worthwhile?

4. Then you cut down the whole forum and say how nasty they ALL are…i guess to try and justify your being a retard with your own comments Thats pretty low ho dissing a whole forum.

5. Next you call SDs maps pretty much crap on their own forums all while your ungrateful ass plays them and their game. Put this on your head…L

6. Then you call DOOM3 ass and talk up another game… again on the forum of the guys that are part of it…doing pretty much what you did to me. Cut the game down before its even out. You need 2…L

7. And the kicker …You say your an optimization freak when you haven’t done squat as far as optimizing or mapping… or were you talking about optimizing your anal retentive thought processes…in that case you are a freak.

8. And last… I’m argueing with some nimrod over the internet that obviously gets his rocks off doing it and trolls around looking to start shit because your like a 98 LB weakling that got your ass kicked in school (though your probably still in school). Now come back and tell me how big you are…lmao…

For number 4, 5 and 6 up there…i’d ban your ass from these forums because you obviously dislike SD and the people on these forums and are here for a reason.

You sure know alot for someone thats done nothing. If i knew programming i’d make a game that would blow ET outa the water…heh

I was posting at the same time as your appology post… i means as much as your comments. Now move on.

[RivrStyx]

:blah: :moo:

[kevinski]

First off, I don’t hate Splash Damage. Secondly, I’m not the first person on these forums that HAS complained about any aspect of ET. Lastly, sorry about the DOOM 3 misconception you’ve had. I honestly forgot that Splash Damage was creating content on it. Either way, I don’t believe they’ve released any of the screenshots of SD’s levels, so why do you think I’m targeting SD? I’m basing my opinions on footage of the game that I’ve seen up to this point.

DOOM 3 is one good example of abusing newer technology. Using excessively high poly counts instead of textures to create convincing environments? Sure, maybe it’s innovative, but it frightens me to think that the DOOM 3 engine is gonna be whored out to countless companies, none of which can optimize games even to the level of DOOM 3.

As for your comments on Fun Beach 2, I disagree. For some reason, my FPS is actually higher in Fun Beach 2 than in mp_resurrection or Market Garden. And yes, that’s during a 40-player match. I honestly can’t explain why that happens if you supposedly get lower FPS, and I don’t care whether or not you believe me. Besides, I was using the map as an example of a map that doesn’t play EXTREMELY well on my computer, yet I tolerate due to the fun factor.

Now, responses to your numbered items:

1. I merely said that you should be sure to OPTIMIZE it more this time around. And it’s good that you finally admitted that you don’t like me. Why? Because it shows that I’m being more mature about this than you are. I’ve tried numerous times to patch things up and offer genuine advice, only for you to come back and blast me with insults. Furthermore, you state that you never called me a name, and I easily locate examples where you HAVE. As for my search for other RivrStyx haters, no, there’s no formal search. I only meant that it shows that not everyone agrees that mp_resurrection deserves to be one of the top maps. Why? Because not everyone plays it, and I’m sure everyone has their own top maps.

2. As for that optimization babble, a good mapper knows when to take a hit in detail for those with low-end systems. Honestly, the trees could consist of fewer polygons, and the rain - as I said - could be replaced with ET’s rain. ET’s rain doesn’t bog down my computer nearly as bad. And yes, I’ve turned off environmental effects. The foliage is the culprit there.

3. You’re blind if you missed my reasoning for bashing Det Pak. He targeted me for giving negative feedback on your map, and he hasn’t made a map himself. He releases sound packs. And he uses sounds in them without permission. Maybe the author of this topic is all right in your book, eh? Being RtCWFiles admin doesn’t mean squat, with the exception of DragonFlyRTCW. DragonFlyRTCW is far more mature about how things are handled, whereas Det Pak flies off the handle.

4. I believe I originally said MOST of the forum users.

5. I don’t play the SD maps very often at all. I only play them if they’re in a campaign with custom maps, thank you very much. As for ‘their game’, SD didn’t do a very good job of balancing the game. The problem? The XP system and its exploits, which SD obviously doesn’t care enough about to release a patch to address said exploits. Sure, the game’s free, but there’s also something called pride. It’s obvious that SD has none, if they release a game and don’t plan to better it.

6. I addressed this at the beginning of my post.

7. I said I was into Web Design and video editing. I know all about optimizing when dealing with those mediums. I also mentioned that I’m new to mapping. You basically twisted what I said to make me look even worse than I did before in the eyes of your fan club.

8. I’m 5’6" and 150 pounds. I don’t troll, but yes, I was bullied a bit in school. WAY BACK in school. Why? Because I was SMART, and smart=nerd in most peoples’ eyes, and they pick on those that they view as nerds. As for right now, I still retain my intelligence, but I’m a much different person that I was back then. I’ve never been hit in school, but I have hit others. It’s amazing how easy it is to get people off your back when you hit them in the face. Regarding my level of education, I’ve graduated from Pittsburgh Technical Institute with an associate’s degree in Multimedia Technologies.

You know what? As for banning me for numbers 4, 5, and 6, I’m sure you wouldn’t even need those reasons. After all, you don’t like me. And for supposedly not caring about what I think, you tend to give some rather lengthy replies to what I say.

[Ifurita]

man, if the two of you spent all this forum time working on your maps, we’d have two new maps to play on. Now, back to work!! Chop chop :blah:

/humor

[kevinski]

I can see you’re up nice and late, just as I am. I hafta work in the morning, though, so don’t expect another reply until tomorrow night (long work day). Of course, you shouldn’t reply, since you don’t care, right? :nod:

:moo: