Musings on basic character development issues

(tokamak) #21

Aye I understand the tiers, but does that mean everyone starts with the same selection?

(Senethro) #22

Ugh, why can’t we just have completely free respecs? Even CoD with its 1001 different progress bars for daft crap lets you fiddle your perks cost free.

The worst thing? The kvetching there will be every time theres a balance fiddle in a patch.

(tokamak) #23

It means that you actually have to think about the choices you make. Oh dear!

(Senethro) #24

It means its a mechanism that artificially increases playtime through grinding and constantly chasing level 20 and punishing experimentation!

Anyway, what are you doing back? :stuck_out_tongue:

(Exedore) #25

The unlocks are the same for everybody, so the variety will go up very near to exponentially with each level.

We always wanted a greater cost for changing your abilities at a high level, and this system does that, plus it gives you the option of leveling down if you want t for some reason.

And yes, it’s why we’ll be weighing any balance decisions with abilities very carefully.

(tokamak) #26

I´ve decided that I can´t keep lurking with so much nonsense being spouted here.

Also my study bores me out of my skull, it manages to demand infrequent, small amounts of effort in such a way that I got oceans of time but can´t leave the country.

So in between other projects, I´ll be here knocking sense into people.

(Senethro) #27

[QUOTE=Exedore;272948]The unlocks are the same for everybody, so the variety will go up very near to exponentially with each level.

We always wanted a greater cost for changing your abilities at a high level, and this system does that, plus it gives you the option of leveling down if you want t for some reason.

And yes, it’s why we’ll be weighing any balance decisions with abilities very carefully.[/QUOTE]

What is the value of a cost for changing abilities? Is the cost significant? How many 10s of hours playtime would it take an average player to go from 19 —> 20?

Would it be possible when you are level 20 to carry on acquiring XP that can then be spent on going from 19 —> 20? Do respeccing players play in the matchmaking games for their current level or their highest level? Is the 15-19 group going to be full of Level 20 players on their day off?

Are you concerned you’ll be too timid with balance decisions due to public outcry that people are “forced” to respec? Will balance updates be the same across all platforms as Dice have attempted to do with BC2?

[QUOTE=tokamak;272951]I´ve decided that I can´t keep lurking with so much nonsense being spouted here.

Also my study bores me out of my skull, it manages to demand infrequent, small amounts of effort in such a way that I got oceans of time but can´t leave the country.

So in between other projects, I´ll be here knocking sense into people.[/QUOTE]

I hear that, that was me about 12 months ago. You ain’t no reyalP though!

(Weeohhweeohh) #28

Exedore, was wondering about the xp system after you lvl to 20. If memory serves me, you can give xp to your other characters, but does it to it automatically or does it bank the xp? I ask the question because if you bank a butt ton of xp, you can respec (lvl down) and lvl back up to 20 within an instant. Can you shed any light or have you said too much. Also, I love you.

(Whydmer) #29

If it were me designing the system for respeccing at level 20, I would have the person start at the beginning of the XP amount for level 19 and have to earn XP through game play on their current spec to get back to level 20. But then that is just me.

hmmmm hold that thought

On the other hand assuming they’re cruel bastards like me, and you have some poor sucker who respecs their 20th level character and is now lvl 19 and halfway through the level they realize their new respec sucks, would they have to drop down to lvl 18 to respec or wait until they got back to 20 and then drop to 19 again…? This could put a big chill on the respeccing of characters, especially high level. Some may not mind as it is the price of playing, but other less patient sorts will be utterly pissssed!

(tokamak) #30

I like WoW’s respeccing system the best. The more often you do it, the more expensive each respec becomes.

(Jess Alon) #31

[QUOTE=Exedore;272948]The unlocks are the same for everybody, so the variety will go up very near to exponentially with each level.

We always wanted a greater cost for changing your abilities at a high level, and this system does that, plus it gives you the option of leveling down if you want t for some reason.

And yes, it’s why we’ll be weighing any balance decisions with abilities very carefully.[/QUOTE]

That’s a pretty smart way to do it. That way people can’t just swap on the fly whenever they want but can build individual characters for individual tasks. Which really ups the replay value of the game overall.

(Senethro) #32

Ok, this is really my credulity straining moment. This is people not only tolerating the Skinner box of progress bars going up, but wanting it.

Is it not enough that your progress bar goes from empty to full 20 times, but that if you want to have a gimmick build for one game, you have to voluntarily accept a time based penalty for your character relative to other players to do so?

I can give levels a pass if what they unlock isn’t too stupid. BC2 medic beginning without healthpack/revive tool and magnum bullets being unavailable untill 10ish hours played count as stupid, but at least you only have to unlock them once. I’m not too troubled by TF2’s item drop system because I was in on the ground floor of that and have accumulated so much currency (scrap) that I am able to buy all gameplay affecting items immediately on release, probably sustainably.

A levelling system that never ends and discourages mucking about? Aw hell naw.

(tokamak) #33

Yes that’s because long therm vision is rewarded. If you know what you want beforehand then you don’t suffer as much as costs as people who have no idea, it gives you an edge.

A levelling system that never ends and discourages mucking about? Aw hell naw.

Aw hell yeah. That’s exactly what I would want to see. It adds weights to your choices. People who know what they want are rewarded with faster progression on their alts. It’s a minor reward in my eyes, but a reward nonetheless.

(Jess Alon) #34

[QUOTE=tokamak;273006]Yes that’s because long therm vision is rewarded. If you know what you want beforehand then you don’t suffer as much as costs as people who have no idea, it gives you an edge.

Aw hell yeah. That’s exactly what I would want to see. It adds weights to your choices. People who know what they want are rewarded with faster progression on their alts. It’s a minor reward in my eyes, but a reward nonetheless.[/QUOTE]

I’d add more to your rep but the board won’t let me. I agree entirely. I think a major point of strategy is going to be thinking ahead and accumulating specialty purpose characters for special roles depending on the group you play with.

(Whydmer) #35

And then possibly building 1 experimental character that you tryout your gimmick builds or quirky combos.

(tokamak) #36

It also entices you to pay attention to what other people are doing and see if you can learn from them as that could safe you from making some expensive mistakes.

(Senethro) #37

Basically, you want to be rewarded for having more time to play than other people. You want to be rewarded for picking a single way to play and for voluntarily choosing to not access some game content.

Thats what this is about. Its what its always about whenever levels are involved.

Aw hell yeah. That’s exactly what I would want to see. It adds weights to your choices. People who know what they want are rewarded with faster progression on their alts. It’s a minor reward in my eyes, but a reward nonetheless.

Right, and what will your opinion be by balance patch 1.8.7? Your desirable build will change with time due to SD changing up the numbers and hopefully that you are capable of getting bored of playing one way, not to mention that someone as experienced at constructing builds as your good self won’t fail to notice that being locked to a specific build discourages you from playing classes unable to leverage that build. Whats the solution? Multiple characters and even more time investment?

They’re gating content behind time you must play. Hell, I’d pay an extra £10 to just have free access to everything all the time because I’m sure it won’t be long before 2 hours of grinding has been accumulated, and thats while I’m still on wage and not salary.

(Senethro) #38

What is it about you that wants to define people wanting to play in a variety of ways as a mistake?

(tokamak) #39

Yes, either you spent more time in the game or you think really hard about which direction you go. But yeah spot on, spending time on the game and thinking about it should be rewarded.

Right, and what will your opinion be by balance patch 1.8.7? Your desirable build will change with time due to SD changing up the numbers and hopefully that you are capable of getting bored of playing one way, not to mention that someone as experienced at constructing builds as your good self won’t fail to notice that being locked to a specific build discourages you from playing classes unable to leverage that build. Whats the solution? Multiple characters and even more time investment?

My opinion would most likely be the same as I would pick a style that I would find fun to play, not necessarily one that has the best numbers.

They’re gating content behind time you must play. Hell, I’d pay an extra £10 to just have free access to everything all the time because I’m sure it won’t be long before 2 hours of grinding has been accumulated, and thats while I’m still on wage and not salary.

It’s either spending more time or more thought. If there was no such restraint people would keep on thoughtlessly copying the latest craze and instantly change when the meta-game moves.

(Jess Alon) #40

You could build four experimental builds.